I’m sorry. I didn’t mean any disrespect. The kids’ reactions to her liking the Cranberries is what made me laugh, not the fact that a black person would like the Cranberries.
Brian and Renee are thin skinned and skeptical. But, what, they don’t have any reason to be? They’re having totally rational reactions to the real world they live in.
Bruno and Carmen are the most appalling examples of the kind of complacent, unthinking racists I think I’ve possibly ever encountered. What a couple of horrible people! Their form of “non-racism” is that they’re smart and “open minded” enough to “get” what makes black people black, and they forgive them for being that way. What a couple of oblivious, condescending, patronizing stone racists. But since they’ve labeled themselves as non-racists, they’re unexamined racists and unlikely to change. I hope this series includes a couple of epiphanies along the way.
I finally managed to catch an episode tonight after forgetting about the premiere, the rerun of the premiere, and the first airing of this episode.
Bruno and Carmen are well-meaning, just clueless. Very clueless. I’m not sure any amount of exposure to black culture is going to make them understand what they’re dealing with. I don’t blame Brian and Renee for being more suspicious of what they’re seeing - sometimes they’re right - but from what I saw tonight, this experience is just confirming the prejudices the four adults already had. Rose seems to be the only one who’s different, and you have to love her for it. Her curiosity is real and uncondescending, and she has an ability to examine her behavior that I don’t see in her parents. Brian also has a curiosity that I enjoyed, but he seemed quicker to decide what was going on. In other words, I guess I have the same feelings everybody else in this thread does.
Yeah, that’s the ticket. Let’s make “racist” mean “a person who does not empathize intimately with the plights of other races”. That way, when we call a skinhead lynch mob racist, our language won’t sting so much.
I wondered if the families would have done better if the show ‘set them up’…by that I mean create a situation in which each family’s reality is made real for the other family. In a way that only the truly delusional would be able to ignore it.
You know, Bruno gets pulled over for DWB, and gets the ‘treatment’, that Brian feels is part of the ‘black experience’ and Brian walks into a store, get’s the ‘attitude’ and then notices that the salesman treats everybody the same way.
I think the experience that they’re trying to achieve is more than just a matter of pigmentation. It seems to me that alot of this stuff, at least as far as people are interacting which each other is subtle stuff, that takes a lifetime to learn or unlearn. We’ve come a long way, since the days ofBlack Like Me and the type of continuous in your face racism of those days.
I’m not sure how it would go to ‘stage’ such events, but I think the families really need an immersion into each other’s lives or at least what they believe each others lives are like, in order to learn something. A lot of racism is random, you can go all day without any problems, then one morning walk into the dinner and get “the look” from some guy sitting at table.
I think it would do Bruno some good, to be in situation of utter frustration and helplessness at the hands of someone who can control his destiny and is screwing him over, simply because of the color of his skin and Bruno knowing there’s nothing he can do about it…better yet having it happen in front of his wife and kids.
Same as for Brian, to assume that he’s being treated such a way because he’s black and realize that the guy could care less about this skin color; he’s an asshole to everyone and therefor realize that he’s being the asshole.
It’s those experiences I think that allows people to really step into the shoes of another and ‘get’ it.
YMMV, of course.
I’ll unspoiler this part since it has already aired. Actually, she said “beautiful black creature”. Thanks for pointing out the word “creature”, because when I first heard the black mother mention the horrible “insult”, I was scratching my head wondering why the word “black” is an insult. :smack:
The black father in makeup reminds me of the hilarious Eddie Murphy in white makeup SNL skit.
Yeah, that’s the ticket. Let’s make sure to inject insulting and dismissive sarcasm into a discussion of racism at the getgo. That way, we frame the exchange as confrontational and antagonistic so we can be sure to avoid any possibility of understanding.
Did anyone else notice that one of the kids in the poetry group said Rose was “well-spoken?” I know he didn’t mean anything by it, I just thought it was an amusing kind of irony.
Yeah, I noticed that. I decided that he was referring to the stiff, overwritten, overintellectualized feel her writing gave off. Most of the other group members were more emotionally immediate in their writing; more “gut.” Her writing’s greatest weakness was the cold analytical feeling it has.
YMMV.
Although I don’t fullly agree with lissener, I see where she’s coming from (you’re a she, right, lissener?). I wouldn’t call them the most appalling racists, but their racism has to be kinda scary if you’re a Black person. It’s kind of a “with friends like these, who needs enemies” reaction. They’re treating this experience like a costume party and they get to play at being Black.
Having said that, the whole “bitch” episode is just silly. Maybe it’s a chick thing to hold a grudge like that, but I’m tempted to say: Just let it go… bitch! Hey, the word was on her q-cards, so WTF? They’re supposed to be coaching each other on language, so just explain it and laugh it off.
I supsect the producers are setting us up a bit, though, and that both families will find common ground and reconcilation by the end. I like this show’s concept, and I’d like to see them do it again with some people who are less agenda driven.
That’s pretty much the same mileage I got out of it. Smart teens are probably just prone to writing poetry like that, and in the situation she’s been in, she had a lot to analyze. She might be the only cast member who’s trying to get emotionally engaged in what they’re doing, so perhaps she’ll come out of that.
That was another one that had Oprah mystified. She said she uses the word creature in that sort of context all the time. To her credit, she pretty much took the wind out two sails: the black mom and the white dad.
If that were the case, I’d be watching it. Unfortunately, they carry the grudges to this day. Oprah settled nothing between them.
Was it me, or did the poetry dudes seem more flirty and amorous towards Rose after her announcement that she was a white girl? Except for third-person Chad, whom the white mom thought was gay.
Bruno is a stone racist, who refuses to see white-on-black racism and feels justified in his worldview when he sees black-on-white racism. They’re starting to really piss me off, the white couple. They’re like, on a safari. This is like going to the zoo for them. They’re playing dressup. Carmen is trying to take it seriously, but her worldview is so naive that I don’t see anything getting through anytime soon. Hopefully by the end of the season.
You know who’re the best matchup in this family? Nicholas and Bruno. Both proudly ignorant.
On the other hand, that whole “creature” thing was stupid. I mean, I get how it happened, but still, look up the damn word in dictionary and shut. Up. What’s gonna happen when Carmen says "niggardly"in casual conversation? Oh HAIL no.
Wanna know what this show woulda been like if Michael Scott had been cast? Bruno.
I’ve finally downloaded the first three episodes of ** Black. White.** I plan to post more detailed responses after I’ve watched all three episodes. I’m trying very hard not to let opinions in this thread prejudice me.
EPISODE ONE
The Moms
Renee is bitchy, begrudging and judgmental. Carmen’s naive, irksome and oversensitive. Neither of them look very particularly convincing in ethnic makeup, although Carmen’s makeup is better than Renee’s. I’m lumping in the Moms because I don’t find either of them that interesting right now. And dammit, I leave used eggshells in the egg carton, too. Keeps them from stinkin’ up the garbage! Carmen, any heartfelt apology that is rejected out of hand is the action of an ass.
The Kids
Nicholas isn’t putting much into this experience. He goes to an etiquette class and is bored. I was very curious why THIS activity was chosen as opposed to something like, I dunno, skateboarding, gaming, .
Rose is refreshing. Agree with the posters who find her likeable. It’s an interesting experience, jumping in doing black poetry. It’d be like me, trying to fit in, in makeup and coached dialect, as a white comic book geek. Unreal.
The Dads
Brian very quickly zeroes in on the idea of being a bartender at a white, lower middle class neighborhood bar might boaden his experiences and loosen tongues. Very savvy move. For those people who say he’s looking for racism everywhere, consider: maybe he knows where to look. I will say he makes the common mistake of assuming every possible racial bias is proof of racism, when that’s just not so. His make-up cracks me up. That mustache!
Bruno’s somewhat bigoted in his close-mindedness, but I do not find him to be particularly racist. He says repeatedly, over and over again, that “Being a success is a matter of hard work” and “I firmly believe that if I walk with dignity and smile and speak to people courteously and with respect I’m not going to be treated this way.” Then he goes, looking for possible confrontations – not in the workplace, but at a used car dealership and a clothing store in a mall! Those aren’t places where people judge you on your appearance. Those are not places where people have power over you. Go to an upscale new car dealership. Go try and get a job in that clothing store in the mall. Go try and file a police report, walk on foot in an upscale white neighborhood. His make-up is disappointing. I wonder why they don’t keep him bald, with darker complexioned make-up and more facial hair? That alone would make him more omniously “black” and change some of his experiences.
Re: Renee flipping out about Nick’s watch
Where’d he get $200 in walking around money if he doesn’t have a job? I’d love the irony if it turned out that his parents had given it to him.
I disagree. I don’t think Bruno is racist in the slightest. His closed-minded refusal to acknowledge other points of view (even his wife’s and daughter’s viewpoints) merely makes him a stubborn self-assured bastard. But I’m sure he’s that way equally across racial boundaries.
Hm. That’s kind of like saying he’s not a racist because he’s bigotted about retards too.
If you’re close-minded and stubbornly self-assured regarding your misconceptions about a particular race, you’re a racist. No matter what else you are on top of it, you’re a racist. Just because he’s the insidious kind, the unexamined self-congratulatory kind who probably introduces himself to strangers as “not a racist” doesn’t mean he’s not a racist. His judgments of individual black people are dictated by general conclusions that are already intractably established in his mind before he’s met them. He’s like the guy who says, “How can I be a racist? I’m a Tiger Woods fan!” He just doesn’t get it, and is not interested in getting it.
We might have to agree to disagree on this, because I just cannot imagine any way you’re gonna make me change my mind on this. Every time he opens his mouth, I’m stunned by what a racist he is. So I’m not in any gray area, ready to be talked out of kind of thing. The way he wants to play dress up based on his ignorant assumptions of how black people present themselve; the way he minimizes–entirely dismisses–the experience of black people in a white world. The way he can’t see the episode in the park as an opportunity to experience, in reverse, what black people experience every day, and instead sees it only as an example of black racism. That should have been a learning experience for him, but instead it just further established his existing prejudices.
Yes, he’s a dick overall. He’s a closeminded stubborn jerk. But if you’re a closeminded stubborn jerk about racial preconceptions, then you’re a racist. Bruno is a racist.
Nonsense. What then do we call actual racists? People who want black people lynched. People who want Indians back on the reservation? People who want white people enslaved. What do we call people like that if we use racist for stubborn jerks?
Besides, isn’t your assertion rather self-condemning? How do you get away with making comments about racism without using racial preconceptions — particularly if you’re stubborn about it?