"Blackish" .. Oh.... REALLY?

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@White SIFL

Where is that Al Jolson smiley when you need it?

See, I was hearing Steve Martin from The Jerk when I read it.

“I was born a small black child” is a quote from that movie, right?

[Freudian_Slit]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

I’ve watched every episode (I think), and with my liberal sensitivity meter set to high, the discussions of race, class, cultural identity had gender equality etc have been funny and relatable. The sheer number of other TV shows where woman are hooted at and objectified are staggering. This episode was nothing.

True, but is it really a trend in sitcoms for characters to encourage kids to…go out and make comments about women walking by? (My sitcom days are over, but they mostly consisted of Frasier, Seinfeld, and Friends…) Noticing it or commenting on it among themselves is one thing, but making a whole grandfather/father/son thing out of it seems a little creepy. But I guess if it’s just facial expressions and not out and out comments (other than “Damn”). Maybe because a kid is involved.

I do remember an episode of Seinfeld where Jerry tells George to take a look at Bob Balaban’s 16-year-old daughter’s cleavage…which George does, really obviously, and then destroys their shot at their pilot getting produced. Jerry later tells George that staring is like looking at the sun. You don’t look directly at it.

Hmmm. “Black people leer like THIS…”

[GrumpyBunny]

@Guinastasia

Do you have any idea how fucking patronizing that sounds? No, you were not a “small black child”. You may have cared about your nanny, but you weren’t a “black” child. Shut the fuck already.

I assumed it was a riff on The Jerk.

@Freudian_Slit

True, but is it really a trend in sitcoms for characters to encourage kids to…go out and make comments about women walking by?

Do you think they need encouragement? Fast-forward a few years, that kid would’ve most likely been doing that with friends.

[Freudian_Slit]

@GrumpyBunny

Do you think they need encouragement? Fast-forward a few years, that kid would’ve most likely been doing that with friends.

But why encourage it to begin with? Especially if the kid doesn’t even seem to be doing it on his own? It just seems weird that a parent would think, “My son doesn’t objectify women enough.”

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Again, I thought it worked in context. It wasn’t the point of the episode. It was a 2 min end bit after a whole episode of about what does it mean to pass on your culture.

Ever see the movie Parenthood? Steve Martin teaches his son to say “hubba hubba” to girls he likes. In real life not a great lesson. In the context of the movie it was sweet.

[Freudian_Slit]

Were there any other cultural traditions or ideas they passed on, then? Reacting to attractive women as a shared value or bonding tradition seems pretty weak, but I am curious to see what else there was…

[Belowjob2.0]

@Cartooniverse

No idea if this belongs in Café Society or here. Move as seen fit.

We watched “Blackish” this week. There were many mediocre things about the show. They are interchangeable with every other sitcom of the last 5 years. This isn’t about but one particular plot bit and how it was handled.

A running thread through the show is that the son doesn’t act like his father or grandfather ( Grandfather is played by series Exec. Producer Laurence Fishbourne ). Specifically, he doesn’t watch women as they walk past and respond in the manner that the two older generations feel are the proper response.

He’s supposed to gape and twist up his mouth in some thunderstruck slack-jawed expression of lust and admiration and who the hell knows what else.

This lack of response is tied into the son’s apparent lack of appreciation of and respect for “The Struggle”. I don’t put it in quotes because I’m being derisive. I am putting it in quotes because it was referred to with such gravitas by the two male leads that it can only be written out as such.

By the end of the show, in a lame attempt to fit in with the two male -cough- role models in his life -cough-, the son sat between father and grandfather on a park bench. Women walked past. African-American women walked or jogged past. The son attempted to produce the approved facial contortions. The camera- and this was a very specific placement of the camera and angle of shot ( so believes the Cinematographer of 33 years who is writing this OP ) was set at their eye level on the park bench. This meant that the women who walked or jogged past were to a great degree shown in a medium to close up while the three sat in the background.

The first woman who jogged past was wearing tights and a top. It was no mistake that her genitals were so clearly outlined in her tights so as to produce the so-called “camel toe”. Do women have dangly bits? Yeah. Do they wear clothing they deem as comfy and a good call when jogging? Yeah. But here’s the thing. The costume choice was made VERY specifically. Because as the first woman jogged past and the son did not produce the appropriate facial expression, he was chided for his lack of…uh… whatever the fuck those two adult men were trying to elicit. Or force. Or produce. Through the episode, they were encouraging the son to focus on the buttocks of a woman as she walked past and to learn to make the proper facial expression of delight and approval of her buttocks.

When the second woman passed by a few moments later, the son produced the expected facial expression. His father and grandfather were proud of him. He then asked if swearing was permitted. They both seemed pleased that he would ask and informed him that yes, it is permitted in such a situation.

He then said, " Damn !.. " and they all laughed.

Now then.

In what Bizzarro parallel universe of television is it acceptable for this plot thread to be encouraged and exploited? Remove the African-Americanness of the entire cast and don’t change a single word, scene or camera angle.

I do not imagine for one second that this entire plot thread would have made it past the Network censors. And, I don’t think it would have made it out of the writers’ room. Why? Because it is the most craven sexist base objectification of women I have seen on television in decades.

Apparently, because the cast is, as the title states, “Blackish”, teaching the son to grin wolfishly and exclaim, " Damn !!! " as a woman walks or jogs past is to be encouraged.

What. The. Fuck.

This show needs to be off of the air. Mr. Fishbourne has made a sad mistake: He has expended an enormous amount of his Hollywood street credibility on a show whose tawdry and degrading stereotypes are more at home in a 1936 Warner Bros cartoon than on a sitcom set in 2014.

My white self and my white wife were both completely disgusted by the hubris and awfully mistaken presumptions being made in this episode.

You get the green light to do a show in prime time featuring an African-American family and this is the shit you produce!!???

They threw your resume in the trash, again?! What, they not taking your phone calls?

Actually, the show’s ranking 12 in the demo, and as long as it does, it will stay on the air. You know that ,of course.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/11/25/tv-ratings-broadcast-top-25-sunday-night-football-tops-week-9-with-adults-18-49/331083/

Next time I run into Larry Wilmore, I’ll let him know that you’ve appointed yourself Head White Person in Charge of Making Negroes Behave. (Actually, I haven’t run into Larry in over a decade, but it works for the joke. :D)

[Dewey_Finn]

@Freudian_Slit

Were there any other cultural traditions or ideas they passed on, then? Reacting to attractive women as a shared value or bonding tradition seems pretty weak, but I am curious to see what else there was…

If I remember correctly, the episode was called “The Nod” and the main plot was that the father didn’t understand why the older son didn’t nod to or acknowledge other African-American students, as was customary in the father’s day. One of the overall ideas of the show is that customs and experiences have changed from the grandfather to the father to the son’s generations.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Freudian_Slit

Were there any other cultural traditions or ideas they passed on, then? Reacting to attractive women as a shared value or bonding tradition seems pretty weak, but I am curious to see what else there was…

Why don’t you watch it? No snark intended- but rather than reading thorough my positive filter or someone’s negative filter see how you respond.

Its a comedy first and foremost, not a cultural documentary. It’s meant to be funny. Reading comments from the target demographic, especially in mixed race families as this one is (the mom has a white mom and black dad and grew up affluent, the dad has two black parents and grew up poor), they felt it rang true. The family is wealthy and the dad and his father (who lives with them) are struggling how to impart the urban experience that was important to the dad and to figure out what it means to pass on “black culture”. (Not scare quotes, but to emphasize that back culture isn’t some monolithic thing that every black person has the same).

I saw it as funny and and interesting take on the subject. It obviously isn’t for everyone, but it totally doesn’t read offensive, racist stereotypes to me.

[FriarTed]

@The_Other_Waldo_Pepper

Or, as I like to call it, jew-ish.

Emphasis on the ISH. L I found the ep where Adam wants the lead in JC Superstar kinda off. While most of the criticism of JCS was from Christians who thought it demeaned Jesus, there was a pronounced feel among many Jews that too much guilt was leveled against Caiaphas & the priesthood while Pilate was almost totally exonerated (he got a lot more sympathetic songs compared to the ponderous dirges from the Sanhedrin pronouncing “This Jesus Must Die”.)

Btw, I love the Goldbergs, tho Beverley is getting a bit overboard.

Hijack over.

[Freudian_Slit]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Why don’t you watch it? No snark intended- but rather than reading thorough my positive filter or someone’s negative filter see how you respond.

It sounds interesting. I’ll definitely give it a go.

[Cartooniverse]

@Belowjob2.0

They threw your resume in the trash, again?! What, they not taking your phone calls?

No, sadly. Ever since I changed it to 212-867-5309, things have really slowed down.

Actually, the show’s ranking 12 in the demo, and as long as it does, it will stay on the air. You know that ,of course.

Private Site

I did not know this. Informative and dismaying.

Next time I run into Larry Wilmore, I’ll let him know that you’ve appointed yourself Head White Person in Charge of Making Negroes Behave.

Wow. As soon as some of the female Dopers chime in here, informing me that I’m way out of line in my outrage and in fact they just adore walking down the street and having their body parts be vocally objectified as they do so, why I’ll scamper right back in here to apologize. This may not have made your radar, since it’s more than 20 minutes old, but many women find that kind of behavior to be highly objectionable.

And remember, you’re the one using racist terminology here. Not me.

[Cartooniverse]

@Dewey_Finn

If I remember correctly, the episode was called “The Nod” and the main plot was that the father didn’t understand why the older son didn’t nod to or acknowledge other African-American students, as was customary in the father’s day. One of the overall ideas of the show is that customs and experiences have changed from the grandfather to the father to the son’s generations.

Yes, this is the episode my wife and I viewed. You are correct. That was the main plot. One of the sub-plots involved learning to admire a woman’s buttocks- and to verbalize it while she is in earshot.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Cartooniverse

No, sadly. Ever since I changed it to 212-867-5309, things have really slowed down.

I did not know this. Informative and dismaying.

Wow. As soon as some of the female Dopers chime in here, informing me that I’m way out of line in my outrage and in fact they just adore walking down the street and having their body parts be vocally objectified as they do so, why I’ll scamper right back in here to apologize. This may not have made your radar, since it’s more than 20 minutes old, but many women find that kind of behavior to be highly objectionable.

And remember, you’re the one using racist terminology here. Not me.

I’m a female doper…

I found it funny and not at all derogatory.

[Ibn_Warraq]

@Guinastasia

Do you have any idea how fucking patronizing that sounds? No, you were not a “small black child”. You may have cared about your nanny, but you weren’t a “black” child. Shut the fuck already.

Agreed. It’s also a relationship dependent on a paycheck.

[Frylock]

@Cartooniverse

I did not know this. Informative and dismaying.
.

Wait, you clarified that you’re talking in this thread about that particular scene in that particular episode, not giving an opinion of the show as a whole. So why would you have an opinion as to whether it’s “dismaying” that the show as a whole is doing well?

[cochrane]

Cartooniverse, there are three steps you can take if you do not want to see this show again:

1. Pick up that rectangular piece of plastic next to you with the buttons on it and aim it at the TV.

2. Hit either the channel up or channel down key until you find a program you like.

3. If that fails to satisfy, hit the power off button.

[Penfeather]

@Ibn_Warraq

Agreed. It’s also a relationship dependent on a paycheck.

Except they didn’t actually pay her:

“My mother made an arrangement in which all her needs would be taken care of if she just stayed with us most of the time and took care of whatever she could. She never had to to hard labor.”

That is what you call a symbiotic and healthy relationship, apparently.

[TBG]

Men like to look at women. Get over it.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Its a comedy first and foremost, not a cultural documentary. It’s meant to be funny. Reading comments from the target demographic, especially in mixed race families as this one is (the mom has a white mom and black dad and grew up affluent, the dad has two black parents and grew up poor)

Pointless nitpick: she has a white dad and a black mom.