Blackpowder Enthusiasts: Your Thoughts, Please

In My Humble Opinion
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I am considering purchasing a pair of reproductions of 1851 Colt Navy Revolvers, one for me (a blackpowder virgin) and one for my father (a blackpowder rifle enthusiast). These guns are available at our local Bass Pro Shops store and seem to be reasonably priced at $110 or so. These are 7.5" barrelled six-shooters, available in either .36 or .44 caliber.

My questions (I should point out that I am quite familiar with the workings of shotguns, rifles and handguns, and have fired each kind frequently but know little of reloading, etc).

  1. Is the loading procedure for these guns overly difficult or can the average shmoe get it figured out? My father can get his rifle fired and reloaded quickly (by his reckoning) but hasn’t tried one of the revolvers.

  2. What kind of recoil is there? I assume there would be a difference between a .36 and a .44 in this regard?

  3. Do you like these types of firearms? Are they fun to shoot?

Thanks!

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1851, eh? Your guns are too newfangled for me to know anything 'bout them. I had to open the thread and reply simply because it mentioned black powder, though.

If it works with Pyrodex, it don’t count, that’s my personal rule. :stuck_out_tongue:

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  1. It’s pretty simple – powder, wad, ball. The easiest way would be to get a loading stand that holds the cylinder upright rather than trying to load it in the gun.

  2. The .44 will kick more than the .36, but neither is very bad; about equal to a .45 automatic.

  3. Yes to both. Lots of smoke and noise. :smiley:
    You’ll definitely want to get the steel-framed version rather than brass – the former costs about $20 more, but it’s worth it, as the brass wears out faster (cylinder get a little out of time and strats spraying lead out the sides, etc.). The $110 ones are probably the steel.

4

The Colt 1851 Navy was not made in .44 caliber. “Navy caliber” meant .36 caliber, and “army caliber” meant .44 caliber. So if you want to be authentic, get .36 caliber for the Navy Pistol. Also, be aware that they should have steel frames; not brass.

I have a collection of blackpowder revolvers, but the only ones I’ve ever gotten around to firing are the 1851 Navies by Uberti. Uberti replicas are higher quality than some (most?) other brands. They also cost a bit more. I think they’re worth it.

To answer your questions:

  1. It’s easy. Pour a measured load of FFF black powder into a chamber. Put a ball on top with the sprue (if it has one) forward. Rotate the cylinder under the ram. Seat the ball with the ram. A think ring of lead will be shaved off, indicating a tight seal. Repeat for the other cylinders. (Be sure to leave one empty if you’re not shooting immediately. Put some lube over the ends of the cylinders to ease cleaning later and to prevent “flashover”. (Flashover probably won’t happen, but it pays to be safe.) Some people just use Crisco. You can also use paper cartridges. I made the ones in the photo I linked. This photo shows paper cartridges next to an 1851 Navy and a Walker.

  2. As I said, I haven’t gotten around to firing a .44; but the recoil of the 1851 Navy is negligible. I’ve only been loading it with 15 grains of powder though. Plenty for plinking. Max loads are for showing off.

  3. They’re a blast (heh) to shoot! Lots of smoke. I’ve found my Uberti Navies to be quite accurate as well. I have (or had, since I haven’t been shooting in years) more fun shooting my Navies than my semiauto pistols. They’re more economical, to boot.

Here is a Loading Table that may be of use to you.

And here’s my favourite piece in my collection. A 2nd Generation Colt 1851 Navy with the box. :slight_smile:

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Oh. I have to show off.

This is my Uberti 1851 Navy in its presentation box. I had the trigger guards on my Ubertis silver plated like the original Colts.

The 2nd Generation Colt 1851 Navy (same picture as in my previous post) has its own Colt presentation box and Colt marked accoutrements (flask, bullet mould, etc.).

No pics of the other BP revolvers yet.

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I have a pair of Uberti 1858 Remington New Army pistols in .44cal that are an absolute hoot to shoot. Nothing really new to add to what others have said, other than to second the “get a loading stand” suggestion. You might also want to get a spare cylinder or two. Makes for a longer stretch of shooting before you have to reload. They also foul a lot more than you are used to with modern firearms. Lots of cleaning involved, but it isn’t hard.

Have fun! :smiley:

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Nah, the easiest way is to make combustible cartridges. (See pics in my first post.) This is how I make them:

Materials:
[ul][li]A brass tube (avoids potential static build-up of plastic tubes) slightly smaller than the diameter of the ball. One that just fits into the chamber is good.[/li][li]Cigarette rolling papers.[/li][li]Potassium nitrate (“salt peter”).[/li][li]Aluminum foil or cookie sheet.[/li][li]Container for the salt peter.[/li][li]Glue stick.[/li][li]FFFg black powder.[/li][li]Balls.[/ul][/li]To make the combustible cartridges:
[ul][li]Make a solution of salt peter and water, as much of the nitrate as will dissolve.[/li][li]Cut the cigarette papers to the appropriate length. You can figure this out by making your first cartridge with a full length of paper and cutting it; then use that length for the rest of your cartridges. Remember to leave enough for a flap on the back that will be foled over later.[/li][li]Dip the cut cigarette papers in the nitrate solution until they’re soaked. (Cigarette papers are already nitrated, but I like to make sure they’ll burn completely.)[/li][li]Spread the wet papers on a sheet of aluminum foil or a cookie sheet to dry. (I prefer aluminum foil. You can also use waxed paper.) When dry, brush the excess crystals off.[/li][li]I put the tube in a styrofoam block that many metallic cartridge rounds come in.[/li][li]Put a ball on top of the tube.[/li][li]Put some glue from the glue stick on one of the short edges and one of the long edges of the paper and wrap the paper around the tube and ball such that the glued short edge is around the ball’s equator. Make a tube out of the paper by wrapping the glues long edge around the brass tube.[/li][li]Invert the tube/paper/ball and pour in a measured amount of FFFg powder.[/li][li]Remove the brass tube.[/li][li]Apply glue to the end of the paper tube and fold it down over the powder.[/li][li]Bob’s your uncle, and you have a paper cartridge![/ul][/li]Okay, that sounds like a lot of work when you see it written down; but it really does go quickly. And you’re really appreciate the time savings when you’re loading in the field. Just put a cartridge into a chamber, seat it, lube it and cap it. Much quicker than measuring your powder in the field. It’s also “authentic”, as combustible cartridges were available 150 years ago.

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Some other thoughts that came to mind…

As silenus says, cleaning is very important. Black powder attracts water. If you leave the residue in your revolver, it will rust.

Cleaning is simple, but can be very messy. I clean mine the old-fashioned way: with hot water. I use rubber dishwashing gloves, because the water is so hot it will burn if I don’t. Using hot water heats up the metal so that any water left after you dry the piece can evaporate easier.

First, disassemble the revolver. Remove the nipples, and be careful not to lose them. I’d suggest cleaning the nipples first and then putting them together in a dish or something. Scrub them with a toothbrush to get all of the residue off. Use a nipple pick to clean the inside.

Rinse and brush the barrel and chambers until the water runs clean. Make sure you get rid of all of the residue!

Clean the frame with a toothbrush. It’s best to remove the stocks so that you can dry the mainspring, but be careful not to damage the screws.

Once everything is clean and dry (be sure to shake out the receiver), apply a thin coat of gun oil to everything, inside and out.

As I said, washing up is messy. You will not believe all of the black stuff that comes out!

I haven’t gotten round to getting a Remington yet. The Remington has a “top strap” over the cylinder that makes it much stronger than the Colts. But that doesn’t mean Colts are “weak”! (More on that in a minute.) You’ll have no worries with a good-quality Colt replica.

As for the spare cylinders, Clint Eastwood carried 'em! I don’t, because to remove the cylinder on a Colt you have to remove the barrel. Not so with a Remington, AFAIK.

But back to strength. The original Colt Walkers (the top one) did blow up occasionally. I don’t recall how much powder they were putting in them. The Loading Data Chart I linked earlier says they carry a max. of 55 grains. I think this might be less than in the olden days. In any case, one can presume that Colt would not put that amount there unless it is safe to load 55 gr. They wouldn’t want a lawsuit. Also, metallurgy has advanced considerably in the last 160 years. You probably won’t have any problems with a good-quality Walker replica.

What’s a “good-quality replica”? I swear by Uberti. Some people say they’re overrated. I’ve found that Ubertis I’ve seen in gun shops have a better finish than most. The Colt 2nd- and 3rd Generation BP revolvers were made in Italy. I’ve heard they were made by Uberti, but I’ve also heard they were made by another Italian company. I’ll leave it to others more familiar with them to comment on other brands such as Navy Arms, Cimarron, or San Marco.

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One thing that I don’t think any one else has mentioned: For the love of God put a wad on top of the ball so that any blow back of hot gas from the fired chamber can’t set off the charges in the other chambers. The last thing you need is for two, or three, or four, or five chambers to go off at once. It could ruin your whole re-enactment shooting experience.

Let me second the advice about going with steel frame rather than brass. Brass is pretty but it does deform with use.

My own preference is for the Colt Army because of its lines and the spectacular flash-bang it produces with a 20 grain load. The Remington .44 is probably a more rugged pistol because of the extra rigidity provided by the top strap.

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This is certainly something to think about. But I have never used a wad. When the ball is seated, the chamber should shave off a thin ring of lead. This indicates that the ball is tight against the sides of the chamber and there is little danger of flashover. I always use lubricant on top of the ball as well. As I said, it helps cleaning later. But another thing it does is prevent any flash from somehow getting behind the ball (which it shouldn’t anyway).

However, I understand that many people swear by using a wad on top of the ball. I don’t think it’s necessary given the precautions I’ve mentioned, but you have to make your own choices.

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I’ve found that an overwad can help clear out some of the bore fouling I get if I have been shooting a while. Not to mention the safety factor. :smiley:

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With the Remington all you have to do is drop the loading ram lever partway to expose the cylinder base pin so you can draw it. The cylinder drops right out and you can just pop a new one in. For safety reasons it’s best to wait until the new one is in before capping.

I’ve never used a wad either, just a smear of grease, and I’ve never had a flashover. The only time I think I would use a wad would be under the ball when using light powder charges, just to make sure the chamber is completely full. Air spaces are bad.

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I have an old (at least 25 years, it belonged to my father) Navy Arms Remington Army.

 I havn't fired it in years, have been spending most of my black powder time with My Brown Bess. However it is a joy to shoot, with less kick than you would  expect. I remember my Mother shooting this weapon without major problems with the kick, and my Mother is a major wimp.  :D 

 I don't tend to use a wad, only vaselene on the top of the cylinder, and have never had flashover problems.
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Okay, I’ve unpacked the boxes. Here’s what I have:
[ul][li]Colt 1851 Navy: Signature Edition (“3rd Generation”), square trigger guard, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap, Colt presentation case, Colt Signature accoutrements (Flask, mould, cap tin, nipple wrench), .36 caliber[/li][li]Colt 1851 Nacy: Second Generation, square trigger guard, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap, Colt presentation case, Colt 2nd gen. powder flask, .36 caliber[/li][li]Colt 1849 Pocket: Signature Edition, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap, Colt presentation case, Colt Signature accoutrements (complete, as with the 1851), .31 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1847 Walker, .44 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1851 Navy: Oval trigger guard, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap to match Colts, DGW presentation case, all accoutrements (flask is Colt-marked 2nd gen), .36 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1851 Navy: Oval trigger guard, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap to match Colts, .36 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1862 Navy, .36 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1849 Pocket, 31 caliber[/ul][/li]
I’ve fired the two Uberti Navies, and they shoot great! The Colts will never be fired.

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Okay, I’ve unpacked the boxes. Here’s what I have:
[ul][li]Colt 1851 Navy: Signature Edition (“3rd Generation”), square trigger guard, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap, Colt presentation case, Colt Signature accoutrements (Flask, mould, cap tin, nipple wrench), .36 caliber[/li][li]Colt 1851 Navy: Second Generation, square trigger guard, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap, Colt presentation case, Colt 2nd gen. powder flask, .36 caliber[/li][li]Colt 1849 Pocket: Signature Edition, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap, Colt presentation case, Colt Signature accoutrements (complete, as with the 1851), .31 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1847 Walker, .44 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1851 Navy: Oval trigger guard, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap to match Colts, DGW presentation case, all accoutrements (flask is Colt-marked 2nd gen), .36 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1851 Navy: Oval trigger guard, silver-plated trigger guard and backstrap to match Colts, .36 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1862 Navy, .36 caliber[/li][li]Uberti 1849 Pocket, .31 caliber[/ul][/li]
I’ve fired the two Uberti Navies, and they shoot great! The Colts will never be fired.

16

Whoops! Found another one.

This is an oval trigger guard Uberti 1851 Navy that I bought from Dixie Gun Works, and it is so marked. Like the other Ubertis, I’ve had the trigger guards and backstraps silver-plated to match the original Colts (and the 2nd- and 3rd Generations, which I have). So that makes nine total BP revolvers, five of which are 1851 Navies.

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They just keep turning up!

Picked up some stuff out of the storage unit yesterday, and found a Classic Arms Ethan Allen Pepperbox .36 caliber smoothbore.

The barrel has been polished and blued, and the pistol is put together; but I need to take it apart and do some more work on the inside. It’s “double action”, in that pulling the trigger cocks the hammer and then releases it; but you have to rotate the barrels by hand. It almost works. Pulling the trigger does what it’s supposed to, but the trigger won’t return to its original position. Just need to do a little more filing on the inside and then finish the stock.

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Invention & Technology, Fall 2004, has an article on Colt’s revolvers called ‘The Most Perfect Weapon’.