It can’t be. The question was what was the evidence of bias in that original post, not do you consider my more recent post evidence of bias.
And you think this means what?
Which is exactly what is being discussed. A persobn who works with the public can notice a trend, from regulars and non regulars oever a period of time. Nobody is claiming it’s scientfic evidence.
Nonsense. Again, nobody is claiming to know every Canadian that comes in but if you’re in a area that gets a lot of Canadian customers you can tell by accent, CC or ID, when doing business.
Let’s say you identify 50 out of 100 Canadian customers, {which I see as conservative for any reasonably intelligent experienced server} If out of those 50 2/3 to 3/4 tip poorly do you expect the other 50 to drastically alter those stats?
Once again, nobody is making a scientific claim or assuming causation so this seems to be a waste of time.
Why the assumption that it’s limited experience? There are people who make very good livings being professional servers and know what good service is.
Take this person for example
Completely irrelevant. I’m not responding to claims I never made.
Incorrect. Nobody is saying being black or Canadian is the cause.
There’s a difference between
"I’ve noticed Canadians tend be bad tippers, and , They are bad tippers because they are Canadian.
Sure which is exactly what that professional said in the link when asking why Canadians tend to tip poorly. He’s a professional in an upscale resturant.
When did I say I assumed that? I didn’t.
You appear to be reading things into my posts that aren’t there and then replying to what you imagined. Please refrain.
well for one thing i NEVER said or even implied I or anyone could always identify Canadians or people from the Middle East. I’ll thank you not to mirepresent my posts.
I asked you a specific question relating to my post because you made a statement I objected to. You have yet to answer. Your response was so general it was a non answer.
Saying bias can exist, and sometimes does influence us, is not a specific answer.
I never claimed to know and don’t need to know. It’s irrelevant.
Look if you don’t believe African Americans and Canadians tend to tip less, then feel free to offer any evidence you have. Insisting it’s not a scientific observation is responding to an argument nobody made.
If you are gonna claim there is a correlation between being Canadian and not tipping, you need to be pretty damn sure when someone is Canadian. Otherwise, you would have no idea how often the two actually correlate.
Yes, but the certainty that such a trend is not person and place specific, and that is it is a factual statement, comes from a rigorous examination of the evidence, not “noticing a trend”.
One has no idea of knowing. This is what you keep missing. There are millions of Canadians who will interact with service people some multiple of that number. Noticing a trend with 50 of them means absolutely nothing, and it is certainly not enough to state with any certainty that Canadians are more likely to tip poorly. It’s also made infinately more difficult because the person making the judgement is in a bad position to judge as their behavior can unknowingly affect the outcome.
Of course you are assuming causation; at least as it’s generally defined when speaking of sociological issues. If one didn’t think the poor tipping was “caused” by Black, then nobody would be positing explanations that the tipping is because of Black culture. More importantly, no one would assume a Black individual they have never met or interacted with would be a poor tipper if they didn’t assume Blackness and poor tipping we sufficiently related as to make the assumption valid.
The same reason anecdotes are not data. One person’s experience is rarely enough to draw any conclusions about a broad group or context.
Way to duck the question. Your whole argument rest upon someone having the ability to do such things. If you think the average server can crunch numbers like that based solely on causal observations then I don’t know what to say. It’s very easy to think you can, but this is why people are generally pretty bad at accurately and precisely measuring such things without careful analysis.
Functionally, there is no difference. People who say this are not attempting to be precise with technical language. They are speaking in generalities. Clearly, no biological fact is gonna literally cause you to perform some behavior in a specific way like tipping below average. Parsing it that way is just being deliberately obtuse.
The real test is, if two otherwise identical people where at a restaurant, would the race or nationality of the person lead one to assume something about their tipping preferences?
Are you really trying to use yahoo answers for a cite?
I didn’t say you did, I was asking you a quesiton, hence the question mark. Once again, do you think groups assumed to be poor tippers and everyone else get similar service?
I was giving you credit where I suppose I shouldn’t have then. If you can’t reliably identify a group you claim, solely from observations, has a proclivity to do a specific thing, then why are you so confident in your conclusion?
I answered you already. I mistakenly referenced your first post, which upon re-reading was fine. It’s when you later made a definitely statement that Canadians are likely to be poorer tippers which I objected to.
No, it’s not. This is a situation where bias is inherent. It’s like asking students whether they were accurately graded by their teachers.
Once again you are conflating several issues and just generally not understanding basic concepts here. It can, and has been observed in limited survey settings that Black people tip less than White people on average. What has not been accurately addressed is whether such a tip is “poor”, what is at the roots of this observation, and whether the correlation has been properly observed/demarcated.
Additionally, what I have taken issue with is your position that servers and other service people are particularly accurate or unbiased in their observations, and whether those observations should mean much in relation to the above questions. You, for some odd reason, cannot understand that most humans are terrible at accurately measuring minor differences like that, and tend to be biased in ways that would serve to confirm stereotypes even if they are not true. This is really not that complicated.
Many people can’t even calculate tips in their head. Do you really think the average server is able to wade through large sets of data, while doing their job, with any accuracy you can rely on? I worked at a restaurant that tallied all sorts of tip data (obviously not by race), and I can tell you that the number of people who (after a busy shift) could accurately tell you how many tables they had, how many people they served, what their sales were, and what tip percentage they got were few and far between.
These posts are just a long windedf way of repeating your point that anecdoatal evidnce is not accurate in any scientific way. I’ve already acknowledged that more than once. It’s a waste of time to keep repeating it. Then, after decrying annecdotal evidence, you offer your own on what servers are capapble of. Funny.
The point of the Yahoo link was to show a professional intelligent server in a high end resturant noticing the same thing I mentioned. Then we have the survey offered by another poster. So, IMO, experienced intelligent servers may not be scientific but they can and do notice tippping patterns among their customers. If you don’t agree fine, but that’s your opinion and you’ve done nothing to back it up with any data. That is all.
And a lot of people notice Asians are poor drivers and that Jews are cheap. How much validity we give to such opinions is based on the rigor with which they were arrived at, not that a bunch of people casually noticed something. Otherwise we could quote people all day noticing trends (read: stereotypes).
Yeah it’s a little racist according to one of the definitions posted above but what can you do? Participating in society without judging someone by appearance is impossible. Are you supposed to greet every person you see as some novel organism without making assumptions about his or her needs, wants, motives, and trustworthiness? As long as your mindful of your primitive characterizations and try to prevent them from making you hateful of others, you’ll be ok.
Often we make the person fit the sterotype. For example if one is cheap and not Jewish, that PERSON is cheap, if that person is Jewish, then the entire religion is cheap. As you can see by my screen name, I teach about prejudice
Stereotyping isn’t always bad. I told my daughter never to take candy from a stranger , and if she got lost go to an older woman or a mom with a child, not to a man.