What I’m trying to say is that people who blame only “black culture” (or say things like “black people are holding themselves back”) are using code for “blacks are genetically inferior.” Black culture (to the extent that such a thing even exists) does not exist in a vaccum and it cannot be neatly segregated from the macro culture.
In this day and age it is not fair to say that black peole are suppressed. It was true 50 years ago. And maybe there has not been enough time for the entire black cutlure to completely change. But if the culture must change, whos is responsible for that? Even if the culture was created, at least partially, by those other than blacks themsleves, aren’t black people still responsible for changing their own attitudes/habits/behavior/priorities. The problem is not biological. Thus, black people have the ability to change themselves if they want to, just like anyone else does.
Just read a few of Bill Cosby’s speeches on the issue. He stresses that black people should stop worrying so much how they’re viewed by others and worry more about how they judge and treat themselves. The best way to overcome racial and social judgments is to do something about it (e.g. get an education, work hard) not to continue to blame others and wait for social justice to be handed out.
What’s wrong with those black folks that they won’t get educations and work hard?
As I noted in my very first post on the matter:
There a lot of things going on. According to Bill Cosby, one obstacle is language. Unfortunately, this obstacle will be difficult to overcome because the language techniques have been handed down from one generation to the next.
- Bill Cosby
Another issue is prioritization. Cosby says many low income families are spending hundreds of dollars on sneakers while ignoring educational tools. Why is that happening? I don’t know, you’d have ask the people doing it.
The point is, some people, and this isn’t even limited to black people, need to change their attitudes and behaviors to become more socially accepted and give themselves a chance to succeed.
Unfortunately, this is gibberish. Culture is not set by genetics, and therefore it cannot be code for anything of the sort.
Regards,
Shodan
Life isn’t fair. You can talk all day about how all your society’s problems are someone else’s fault, and there’s a good chance that you’ll be 100% right,but it won’t change a thing. The people who wronged you will never make it right. That’s the unfair part: it may be their fault, but fixing it is your responsibility.
The African American community’s problem’s are almost completely the fault of white America, but white America won’t solve them. Nobody will. As the hot dog seller said to the Buddhist monk, change comes from within.
The accuracy of the first statement does not in any way prevent people from using it as code anyway. These are morons we’re talking about.
Bolding mine. I was with you until that part. Is that like saying terrorism is the result of Islam? I mean, white America is a pretty broad brush. You could also say Obama would never be president were it not for white America. So white American giveth and white America taketh away? I’ll grant you that some ignorant white Americans certainly played a huge role in forming black culture some time ago, but anymore you can’t blame white America.
Wow. Bill Cosby is really dumb. I never knew that.
My experience (which is decades old so things may be different now), the school environment diverges starting around middle school.
I would be interested in data on traditionally black all girls schools and how their graduates do and traditionally black military schools (if they exist) and how their graduates do.
Its a very rare combination to be both socially adept and intellectually inquisitive at a young age.
I don’t know if this is any consolation but I was staying at a hotel where an anime convention was going on (people were dressed up as all sorts of things) and at least 10% of the kids there were black, and they were mostly girls. I’m just saying that anime seems to be at least ass popular among black girls as it is in the general population.
No, it’s really not all that rare. There are plenty of smart people that were socially skilled as kids. Just as there are plenty of jocks who were bright and literate. Not everyone who wears coke bottle glasses is smart and not every kid who is popular is anti-intellectual.
By “white America”, I don’t neccessarily mean *current *white America. Most of the damage was done in the past.
An interesting enigma to me as a southerner is that the black people I know on first name basis can almost to a person perfectly mimic not just white dialect but a variety of white dialects: redneck, patronizing rich-bitch, “full of shit” white politician, and the slightly vaguely midwestern “CNN” voice (the U.S. equivalent of “received pronunciation”). Most are usually done with a bit of overemphasis for comedic effect, but you know exactly what type of person they’re imitating.
The white people I know on first name basis can almost to a person perfectly mimic not just black dialect but a variety of black dialects: histrionic pissed off older black woman, over enunciating black preacher, ghetto thug, patronizing old man and “full of shit” black politician.
They rarely imitate the other race in front of them, but it’s something you just learn to do almost subconsciously, almost like another language and complete with syntax and pronunciation eccentricities. (In Alabama for example it’s common to hear uneducated blacks ask “what time it is?” and to occasionally drop the last consonant [what time i’ i’?] while uneducated whites tend to overenunciate random last consonants and stretch random vowels [“What ti-i-ime izzzzzz it?”].)
Most also have a sort of diglossia: how people, regardless of race or social class, speak with their peer group is a lot different than how they speak in public. (I do this- I talk really fast when I’m around friends but slow it down and have marginally more accent when speaking in public because I’m accused of sounding snobby or English when I speak in my regular voice. Around gay friends my voice gets a tad nellier of course. Of course diglossia is not unique to any region but pretty much universal.
It’s proof, at least to me, that dialect is largely if not exclusively a matter of choice and cultural identity. Whether all are created equally is I suppose a separate debate.
clearly it comes down to culture. Cultures are different for whatever reason. You dont need to involve genetics. Compare Jews and Gypsies as an example of two rather distinct cultures, both have a long dark history of prosecution. Now cultures adapt to situations and also evolve from them.
When it comes to academia, the jewish culture arm their sons and daughters better for scholarly success when compared to Gypsy dito.
I do not have a cite for this but I am willing to take a guess.
This can be transferred to any group/class/culture.So what is the controversy? cultures are different.
Considering that the only person using this code here is you, perhaps you should stop trying to derail the thread?
Yes, and different cultures can lead to some traits & genes getting passed on more than others. The Ashkenazi Jewish example you provide is an example of this.
http://homepage.mac.com/harpend/.Public/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf
This is also seen in terms of ‘middle class traits’ being selected for in structured agricultural societies.
Also, see ‘The 10,000 Year Explosion’ reviewed here:
Maybe rare is not the right word. Its uncommmon. How many valedictorian/salutatorians do you think were also the class president or the prom queen, or the captain of the football team for that matter.
The spectrum between socially inept geek and prom queen/king is huge. Posessing a full set of social skills doesn’t necessitate you being the most popular person in the room. You can’t just look at the extremes and draw the conclusion you have.
Maybe my K-12 experience was completely different than yours, but I found that most kids who were well-liked and admired were also the smartest. They got top grades, were involved in extracurriculars (like sports), and were respected by the adults in the school. Those who were socially inept and unpopular weren actually less likely to be smart than the popular ones were. In fact, sometimes they were made fun of because they weren’t as quick in class. They were easy targets because they didn’t fit in and lacked the skills to do so (which is different than not fitting in because you simply don’t want to…these kids generally weren’t targets).
The whole “acting white” thing in my experience wasn’t about being smart so much as exhibiting behaviors associated with white stereotypes. Like talking in what appears to be an affected “white” manner or showing more interest in “white” things (like heavy metal) than “black” things (like R&B).