Shoulda started another thread for “Star Wars Ethnicity”…
I got into this at work with some people-- please tell me that I’m not the only one who saw Jar-Jar’s accent and mannerisms as Jamaican (or, at least, as Hollywood’s stereotype of a Jamaican).
She kinda reminded me of a princess from India.
Jar Jar and his kin had ears that could easily be mistaken for Jamaican dreadlocks. I also noticed that their army marched in the victory parade like so many 1970s Blacksploitation flik pimps.
Yeah, except not one of them sounded noticeably “black” (whatever that means), and they appeared to be pretty technologically advanced. Seems to me people are taking their own racial prejudice with them, and projecting it onto characters who, we shall note, are not human beings.
Err . . . yeah, maybe if you were looking really hard for ridiculous things to bitch about.
I also noticed that their army marched in the victory parade like so many 1970s Blacksploitation flik pimps.
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Uh, you do know those are supposed to be aliens, and not people, right? You did notice the muscular, flexible necks, which would probably bob like that out of biological necessity when walking, like camels or giraffes, right? You did notice that the characters who really were black-skinned humans were the head of the Queen’s army and the head of the Jedi council, right?
Any one of the “racial” or “ethnic” accents would have been OK, I think it was the preponderance of use of stereo-type accents that put me off. And notice that the earlier films didn’t need to do that – the lobster-guy in JEDI speaks like an alien, but not with an indentifiable accent. Similarly, Jabba in JEDI and Greedo in STAR WARS; recognizing that they’re subtitled, but still, they speak “alien”, not simply Japanese-accented English.
According to the “Making Of . . .” book that ties into the film, the voices for the Trade Federation aliens were based on tapes of foreign-born people speaking English. IOW, people for whom English was not their first language speaking it. Like, say, aliens.
Phil - I assure you that a person does not have to be racially prejudice to recognize racial stereo-types. I’m sure what ended up on the screen was probably not intentional, but it is an indicator of how little thought was put into how the aliens might be perceived. Jar Jar calling the white guy “Master” every couple minutes didn’t help.
As for the black characters, well, you tell me how important either of them (because there were only two) were to the story. I hope Samuel L. Jackson returns in the future movies, otherwise Lucas has wasted the talents of one our greatest actors in a completely superflous role.
Granted, I had been clued into these details (by a black friend, racial prejudice on his part, no doubt?) before seeing the film and may have been on the look out for them. Still - I am surprised they weren’t first noticed by the producers.
Why does everyone assume that nonhumans are black, that’s what I want to know? Like I said, it’s the viewer’s own predisposition being projected onto the movie. I’ve heard this “Steppin Fetchit” thing repeatedly, and it seem to me like a meme that has wormed its way quickly into public opinion, but which has no basis in fact.
The Gungan speech doesn’t sound remotely Jamaican, although white people who don’t really know what Jamaicans sound like might think so (and I bet black voiceover actor Ahmed Best knows the difference).
I guarantee you that not once does Jar Jar call anybody in the movie “Master.” Not once. And if he did, you get a shiny new dime. (FTR, I’ve seen the movie five times, so I’m certain I’m correct.) This is exactly what I’m talking about–you’ve decided that Jar Jar is a negative racial stereotype, so your mind starts filling in things that don’t even exist in order to justify your own predisposition. “Calling the white guy ‘Master’”–give me a break. Never happens, not once.
He does refer to the Gungan leader as “Boss Nass,” which is apparently his title and name. (And, BTW, it’s been pointed out that Jar Jar walks alot like Shaggy from the “Scooby Doo” cartoons.)
The white Obi-Wan Kenobi does refer to Qui-Gon Jinn as “Master,” and so does Yoda for that matter. “Master” is the Jedi level after “Knight.”
Yeah, the head of the army isn’t at all important.
He asked to be in the movie and to work with Yoda. He didn’t ask for a starring role. Ever heard of a cameo?
Do you think so? Again, why the assumption that the Jar Jar character, a nonhuman, is supposed to be black? Or even “black”?
Maybe they know the difference between an imaginary alien and a human. I wonder how much of an issue this would be if Jar Jar’s voice artist wasn’t black?
I hesitate to call it racist, but I think there’s some definite stereotyping going on. The lead characters (both heroes and villians) somehow manage perfect English, no matter what their race. The low-life, on the other hand, all speak with heavy accents – accents which, by the way, have been used in movies over time to indicate ignorance (comic or otherwise), venality and other character flaws.
And for everyone who thinks the characters aren’t really stereotypes because they aren’t human, go back and take a good look at the crows in Dumbo.
Long ago in this thread, ExTank said:
Gack! Actually, it was a horrible book. I read it thinking it would be pretty good (I liked “The Physics of Star Trek” and “Beyond Star Trek” by Lawrence Krauss, and hoped Cavelos would put out a similar book), but I just got more and more annoyed as I read it. Heck, by the end of it she isn’t even dealing with science any more, just speculations based on debunked parapsychological experiments. Some of the “experts” she cites are ridiculous (though they are mixed in with some pretty good ones, so it’s sometimes hard for the reader to tell who they should pay attention to if they aren’t already familiar with these folks).
I could go on, but I think I’ve gotten my thoughts on it across. 
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On the other subject in this thread:
PapaBear – pldennison is right; JarJar never calls Qui Gon “master.” Perhaps you misunderstand the way he says “me,” which is “messa” (he also says “you” as “youssa”).
“Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.”
– Neil Peart, RUSH, “Witch Hunt”
Guess you liked the movie, huh, Phil?
So did I. I broached the subject because I (and plenty of other people) could see stereo-types being perpetuated in many of the characters. I’m sure my perceptions were colored by what I had heard before seeing the movie. Your correction on the “master” thing has me wondering if I would have noticed this stuff if I had seen the movie before hearing other people’s take on it. That is why I asked. To preclude having to answer a “what stereo-types?” post, I gave some examples. Your inference that I am in some way projecting my own racial prejudices onto the screen got my hackles up, and I probably clung to the stereo-type thesis even more tightly than I otherwise would, because of that.
If I was Lucas I would have certainly been more carefull about how I portrayed the aliens. Wheather you like it or not, as far as SF symbolism is concerned, Extraterestrials=other races or nationalities.
As to casting; S.L. Jackson’s cameo is simply distracting, and adds nothing to the film. The general may be important to his army but he aint all that important to the story.
I don’t think Lucas is a racist, I just don’t think he’s alert to many of the societal equations people will make between this great mythology and the real world.
To an extent, sure, but not always. I think the hem and haw being made over the Gungans in this movie is much ado about nothing. Frankly, the characters are portrayed as having a much better organization and army than the human characters who inhabit the same planet. I certainly don’t think they’re intended to stand for any particular race or nationality; “Star Wars” isn’t that kind of “social-commentary” SF.
In the event, I wonder how much these points would be raised if Jar Jar had been voiced by notable white slapstick comedian Jerry Lewis, or, better yet, with his broken English, Roberto Benigini?
For the record - I had no idea that Jar Jar was voiced by a black actor. I assumed he was done by the same white guy who did Roger Rabbit.
I must bring up a quibble here. Various people have said (here and in other threads) something along the lines of “if you see a stereotype, it’s your own prejudices”.
This is not neccesarily so, but it does have some basis in reality. More like, it’s based on prejudices AND ignorance. If you don’t interact with people of different cultures to impress in your mind that there is no “typical” example of a given race. Instead, you are left with the examples you do see most often in film and tv - the stereotype. That’s the whole definition of stereotype. It’s the conventional portrayal of a given thing.
The interesting thing is that you often become most aware of stereotypes when you become more familiar with a culture and realize how different it can be from the stereotype.
Now, there are differnent parts of a complete stereotyped racial character. You mainly have a) what they look like, b) how they talk and c) how they act (physically).
So, to many people, they feel that Lucas has combined a certain part of a stereotype (how people talk in the case of the psuedoasians) with the otherwise alien features of how they look and/or act. I definitely saw this with the psuedoasians (can’t remember their race, so I’ll have to stick to this name). I also saw similarities with Jar Jar’s speech to some black speech stereotypes. If not for this similarity, I don’t think the “pimp walk” stereotype would have really entered into most people’s minds.
Anyway, enough of a diversion. I’m just trying to clear some things up which I think have been muddled.
Having seen Star Wars just once (each movie once, I mean, including the new one) I didn’t really notice any kind of stereotyping. I noticed a variety of accents, but figured that was done to show this is one species, this is another, etc. As for Jar Jar, the way he walked looked more like the product of computer-animation (I really think that computer-animation creates very odd looking movement) and the way he talked seemed modeled after Stefanie from Full House. (For example, “How rude!” and other annoying expressions.) I don’t think noticing stereotypes means you are prejudiced (just the opposite, those who are prejudiced tend to believe stereotypes, and would accept them as true representations of how “certain people” act) but I do think some people (those who ahd been tipped off before seeing the movie) were probably looking for stereotyping.
Cave Canem. Beware the Dog.
Sorry, but I still think anyone who watches the movie and says, “This obviously nonhuman character walks oddly, talks funny, and acts silly–he must be representing black people!” is throwing their own preconceptions, predispositions, and prejudices at the screen. The animators who handled the character said they were going for a “Buster Keaton-type” activity. Buster Keaton, we will note, was not black. It’s a slapstick character–why assume it represents a racial minority?
If I may poke a sharp stick at the hornet’s nest…
Forgive me but Qui-Gong & Obi-Wan talked, walked & looked awfully Caucasian to me. Am I projecting Caucasian stereotypes onto the screen? That’s a ridiculous assertion to make, since the obvious response is So what if they are? What’s wrong with them being cast as a Caucasian race?
By the same token, what’s so horrible in suggesting that certain racial tags were used for the Trade Federation aliens, Gungans or any other species? As I think I said earlier, my friend & me perceived the similarities & appreciated them. The Gungans were portrayed as a brave, proud species willing to overcome the prejudices of their own planet & unite with an enemy species for a common goal. What’s wrong with being cast in that light?
BTW, a review at sidewalk.com suggests that Jar-Jar resembles something “half-platypus, half-effeminate Rastifarian”.
pldennison:
Hey Phil, what about the crows in Dumbo? This has already been mentioned, but it appears you skipped it.
If the intent was to base Jar Jar on Buster Keaton, then those responsible failed miserably.
No, Buster Keaton wasn’t black. Nor did he talk, or make any exagerated facial expressions.
Buster Keaton, indeed! I think it’s time for someone to visit their neighborhood video store.
I thought I pretty clearly implied above that I was referring specifically to “The Phantom Menace” and the Jar Jar character. If you missed it, I can maybe draw pictures or something.
I don’t think there’s any question that the crows in “Dumbo” were meant to represent the prevailing conception of black people. I also don’t think that the Gungans in general or Jar Jar specifically were meant to represent black people. “Star Wars” has never engaged in that sort of representational use of aliens.
Buster Keaton didn’t make exaggerated facial expressions? Does “deadpan” count?
“Deadpan” is the exact oposite of exagerated facial expresions. I’d hardly describe Jar Jar as “The Great Stone Face”!
Really. I mean it. Check Buster Keaton out on video. Even if it doesn’t make my point for me, it’s still great stuff.