The soda ban itself is not a big deal or scary. Setting a legal precedent for government to regulate what food or beverage gets sold is scary. Once that door is cracked open it is difficult to close.
It’s always a fine line deciding what gov regulates. Restaurant health code inspections are necessary and ensures public safety. But up till now what gets served and portion size is entirely up to consumer demand. There are a few exceptions. Booze is an obvious one. Maybe someday big government will get the power to limit soda sizes. It should first be part of a vigorous public debate and enacted by state legislatures.
Freedom can erode so easily over time. Is the size of a soda at a restaurant a big deal? Not really. But it starts us down a path of regulating an entire industry. Food service is a big part of our economy. I’m just saying any regulation of that industry requires public debate and careful thought.
I was referring to one guy Bloomberg and his lackeys at the Board of Health unilaterally making a decision. This policy was foisted on the people of NY city with a news announcement.
I’m not thrilled at gov regulation but sometimes its needed. Don’t ambush the public with decrees from on high. Use the democratic process. Let the public express their views and then a body of elected officials can decide.
Oh. Somehow all of those details were missing from your other posts. It sounded like you were against the government regulating this kind of thing at all - your last few posts still give that impression - but now you’re saying they just went about this the wrong way.
As part of a public debate I would argue strongly against the soda size restrictions. But if that’s what the majority of people support then it will get regulated. It won’t be the first time I was on the losing side of an argument.
Bloomberg and the Board of Health did over step their authority. The courts have affirmed that.
The things the FDA regulates are legitimately dangerous. The few things that aren’t dangerous right away are addictive and thus may force someone to take enough to hurt them. Soda has none of these. Soda is not even dangerous enough to need a prescription. There are way too many other things that are actually dangerous that are still allowed.
And that’s exactly what this decision says. You can’t argue that soda is so unhealthy that it is unquestionably something that must be restricted. The FDA doesn’t work by democracy, either, but that’s because they are dealing with legitimate health threats.
Stopping someone from doing something that could directly kill them is one thing. But soda isn’t that. It’s something that can be linked to obesity which is then linked to other health conditions which can possibly kill you. It’s three complete factors away from being dangerous. It’s simply unhealthy, and I do object to people being forced to be healthy.
Soda is not a legitimate threat.
And, frankly, it was obvious that this is what aceplace meant, too.
He said a couple of things that were factually inaccurate and a couple of other things that contradicted the position he says he holds. So no, it was not obvious at all.
This whole idea of it being “scary” makes the opposition seem like crazy nuts. As Marley said, the government has wide powers to regulate food, drugs, or whatever it damn well pleases. Nothing about this soda bill crosses any line from “typical governmental regulation” to “dystopian freedom-hating proto-Nazis”. The fact that they overreached was properly struck down through our systems of checks and balances
And had the ban been upheld, then what? Like its been mentioned before, lots of things are regulated, there are constant disagreements between what’s a good regulation and what’s a bad one. When there’s a bad one, we’ll fight it, when there’s a good one, people generally are fine with it. Get over yourselves with the “its scary when the government does this”. No, its a standard government function. Nothing scary or different about the soda ban at all.
To me, it speaks much more to how certain people want to cultivate a fear of the government rather than any legitimate disagreement about its functions. Stop it. The government is not scary. Sometimes they go too far but more often they get pulled back.
My position evolved as arguments were raised in the thread. I’m trying very hard to listen more closely and consider what others are saying. I’m trying to be more open minded and I’m thinking more about arguments others raise. This was an example where I realized my biggest concern was the way Bloomberg (and yes his minions at the Board of Health) tried sidestepping the voters. Issuing an edict from on high.
I will never be a fan of big bloated government. I prefer that the government stay out of my life as much as possible. I’m also pragmatic. I realize some things like food and medicine safety have to be monitored. We need some government support Social Security, Dept of Labor , minimum wage etc. to make our lives better.
Soda cup sizes do not qualify IMHO. It’s too much like a nagging mother telling me to put on my coat and galoshes. Telling me what size soda cup that I can have is just too personal and intrusive. Obviously others feel differently.
Most of me feels the same way, but I’m also aware that adults make bad decisions with alarming regularity. And they do it for their children, who then assimilate that a 32oz. soda is a single serving, and the cycle doesn’t just continue, it gets worse. If more adults made responsible, informed, intelligent decisions than happens in practice, this legislation wouldn’t be needed. But we don’t (as a group - I could give a shit less about the individual who always makes the ‘right’ choice). And, through insurance and other issues, we all pay for other’s bad decisions.
