Blown gasket straight after a service?

Factual Questions
1

Hello all

My wife’s Ford Fiesta Style (2005) just blew a gasket while she was driving it home. Thing is, it had a major service last Saturday. The guy who came to pick it up (AA, in the UK) said he was very surprised that it had just gone through a full service (and MOT) with this not being picked up. The car has done about 40,000 miles.

I am at work and have not seen the car or spoken to anyone first hand about this. The above is pretty much all I know.

So - mechanically-minded dopers - can a (soon-to-be) blown gasket just be ‘one of those things’ which would escape the eyes of a skilled mechanic performing a major service on a vehicle? Might the blown gasket somehow be the result of the service, or could this be down to negligence on the part of the service personnel?

Many thanks in advance

2

What gasket?
Cylinder head?

If so, I don’t know of any way to detect an impending failure - there’s no way to inspect it’s condition.

3

I’d say it’s very unlikely it was caused by the servicing, and reasonably unlikely it should/could have been detected/predicted while being serviced, but I’m making some assumptions about just what the problem is.

Gaskets are used to seal between two pieces of an assembly that join together. There are many different gaskets on an automobile, sealing many different devices, containing any of several different fluids. So the important question is, exactly WHICH gasket failed? What was the nature of the breakdown, and what were the symptoms observed?

Without more details we’re left to speculate among many possibilities.

4

The report from the roadside repair guy was “Suspect head gasket failure and water pump”. Might that clear anything up?

5

What did she have serviced? Did it have anything to so with the section of the car where the gasket blew?

6

It was a ‘Major Service’ - this is all the work (supposedly) done. Would a head-gasket-that-was-ready-to-blow remain undetected by the below?

Carry out vehicle damage report
Report severe body damage
Fit all protective covers
Locate all relevant vehicle information
Check Cam belt change interval
Check starter motor efficiency
Check clutch for slip or drag
Check front wheel alignment (road test)
Check steering wheel is central
Road wheel balance
Test Engine performance
Check gears select correctly
Test brakes
Check ABS functions
Check brake servo action
Check Power steering function
Test CV joints for wear
Report on any suspension knocks
Check front wiper blades for cracks or wear
Adjust washer aim if required
Check rear wiper blades for cracks or wear
Check number plate condition
Check all exterior lights
Check security of wing/door mirrors
Lubricate door hinges
Visually check exhaust gasses
Carry out emissions test (print)
Check central locking works correctly
Operation of internal lights
Check dash for warning lights
Check vents operate correctly
Check Heaters
Check Air con operation
Operate front washers
Operate rear washers
Check windscreen for chips and cracks
Check other electronics e.g seats, mirrors etc
Check safety of all seat belts
Report on pollen filter condition (if accessible)
Carry out engine diagnostic code read (print)
Check hand brake operation
Check horn operation
Check all visible belts for cracking or wear
Check auxiliary belt tension
Check Charging voltage
Test battery voltage
Check security of battery
Clean and coat battery terminals
Check all visible coolant hoses for leaks
Check radiator and inter cooler conditions
Check operation of cooling fan
Report on coolant strength (new if applicable)
Check and top up coolant level
Check and report coolant condition
Check coolant cap seal
Visually inspect expansion bottle
Check Power steering fluid level
Check and top up brake/clutch fluid level
Clean brake fluid reservoir
Check HT leads and Ignition coils for visible deterioration
Check distributor cap (if applicable)
Check condition of spark plugs
Change Spark plugs (extra for long life)
Check for air leaks
Inspect visible breather hoses
Check visible fuel lines
Replace Diesel Filter (paper element only)
Report on air filter cleanliness
Change air filter
Top up washer bottles
Grease bonnet latch mechanism
Lubricate Clutch cable (if applicable)
Lubricate throttle cable (if applicable)
Check wheels for distortion or damage
Check Wheel trims for damage
Visually check tyre tread depths
Measure tyre tread depths (including spare)
Check tyres for damage
Check tyre is fitted to side wall instructions
Set tyre pressures to manufactures specification
Check front wheel bearings for deterioration
Check rear wheel bearings for deterioration
Check steering rack for play
Remove all road wheels
Visually check front discs and pads (through wheels on varia)
Measure front discs and pads
Clean and lubricate front discs and pads
Check brake callipers for leaks and security
Visually check rear brake discs and pads (through wheels on varia)
Check rear drums and shoes
Measure Rear brakes
Clean and lubricate and adjust rear brakes
Check wheel cylinders for leaks
Check brake pipe hoses for splits or leaks
Check brake pipes for splits or leaks
Check road springs
Check shock absorbers condition
Check security of suspension mounts
Test exhaust pressure
Remove sump plug and drain old oil
Change oil filter
Refit Sump plug
Check for engine oil leaks
Check gear box oil level
Check for gear box oil leaks
Top up gearbox oil if required
Check for water leaks
Check for axle or differential oil leaks
Check for power steering fluid leaks
Inspect vehicle underside for damage or corrosion
Check exhaust system for damage or corrosion
Inspect inner and outer drive shaft gaiters
Check rack gaiters
Grease relevant greasing points
Clean, lubricate and adjust rear handbrake
Check security of engine under tray
Fill engine with correct grade oil
Check oil level
Refit road wheels
Set wheels nuts to manufactures specification
Re fit wheel trims
Re-set service indicator
Carry out post service road test
Wash Vehicle
Hoover and dash Vehicle
Jet wash vehicle wheels
Carry out final quality control checks
Park vehicle in customer car park
Remove protective covers
Report keys to reception
Report all paperwork and printouts to reception
Report vehicle service book to reception
All Old service parts to reception
Contact customer on completion

7

They didn’t do anything that would cause damage to the head gasket.

It’s also possible (and probably fairly likely) that the gasket was not showing any signs of damage externally before it blew.

The head gasket is between the cylinder head and the engine block. This picture shows you where the head gasket is relative to the engine. There isn’t much of the head gasket visible from the outside of the engine.

Head gaskets can fail in different ways. They can fail and leave a hole from the cylinder to the outside of the engine, which you can very easily see from the outside of the engine. In this type of failure, you might see something around the area where it is starting to fail just before it goes, but depending on where the failure is located it might not be easy to see. The gasket can also fail internally, between the cylinder and an oil channel or between the cylinder and a water/coolant channel, for example. Not only would you not see anything prior to the failure from outside the engine, you likely wouldn’t see anything from the outside of the engine even after the failure.

Since the roadside report was “Suspect head gasket failure and water pump” that tells me that there weren’t visible signs of the head gasket blowing from the outside of the engine, which means that the gasket most likely failed internally.

8

Without more detail I suspect that all the roadside guy observed was a loss of or lack of coolant. You typically can’t SEE either a head gasket or water pump failure without dissassembly. The problem may not be as severe as a head gasket.

The checklist you posted includes a lot of coolant hoses and I wonder if the technician was poking and prodding too enthusiastically and caused a leak? Did he replace a hose?

A head gasket failure after simply inspecting the items in the list would just be coincidental.

9

I wouldn’t suspect a head gasket or water pump failure just from a loss of coolant. I’d suspect a hose or a radiator problem instead. I’m thinking that the roadside guy also saw white smoke coming out of the exhaust or the driver told them that it was making a lot of smoke.

Then again, maybe the roadside guy just wasn’t all that swift.

Hopefully it is something simple like a hose. That’s a much easier fix, and probably would be covered by the shop since it likely would have been a result of the recent maintenance.

10

Perhaps. An overheated engine can blow a head gasket. Water pump failure can cause the engine to overheat. A lot depends on the nature of the waterpump and head gasket failures.

One would not expect the water pump to fail after 40,000 miles, but water pump failure after 11 years is not surprising. Water pumps do not typically fail without warning, though. They can, but the typical mode of failure is leaking. Slowly at first, so slow the only evidence is low coolant levels. As the leak gets worse, the vehicle may start to leave puddles.

In the US, if I had such a service performed on my vehicle, and the mechanic discovered a low coolant level, I would expect the mechanic to notify me about the situation. While there are reasons for low coolant level that does not imply a critical situation that needs immediate repair, unless the cause is known, the operator needs to be notified to check the coolant frequently so that a problem does not develop.

It is possible that the mechanic opened the cooling system while it was hot and did attributed the low coolant level to his own mistake, so he did not feel the need to inform the owner.

It is possible that the waterpump is fine, but a radiator hose developed a leak. 11 year old hoses have a habit of doing this. Since they will rot from the inside, a mechanic may not be able to tell if the hose is about to fail.

Since there the following was included in the service

there is evidence that the mechanic did, in fact, check these out. In the absence of any evidence the mechanic did not do these things, one has to believe they were done. As I stated above, just because the hoses look to be in good condition on the outside does not mean they aren’t about to start leaking. Same thing for the water pump. As the operator of a motor vehicle, one is supposed to monitor the engine temperature (if a temperature gauge is available and in good working order) and be aware of any unusual odors (a small leak can be smelled as the antifreeze has a distinct odor; a large leak will produce copious amounts of steam).

Of course, it is also possible that there was no warning signs at all and both the mechanic and the operator could not have anticipated the failure. Without knowing more details, it would be hard to tell.

In the US, a car with only 40,000 miles on it in 11 years would be considered a very low mileage vehicle. One of the problems of very low mileage vehicles is rubber and plastic parts are prone to failure. These parts would probably be replaced once or even twice in 11 years under normal driving conditions, but because the mileage was so low, they often can fail without notice.

11

Yes. There’s no way to detect a soon-to-fail head gasket unless you have X-ray vision, a crystal ball, or both.

I find that to be an interesting Major Service. Essentially it comprises an oil, filter, and lube service, air filter replacement; spark plug replacement, cleaning the car, and inspecting everything they could think of to list. Or at least listing those things. “Check number plate condition”? I’m surprised they didn’t put “Check radio knobs for fingerprints” on there. :wink:

Normally I wouldn’t think performing this service would relate to the problem experienced, but excavating makes a good point: if some poorly trained fool opened up the cooling system while it was still hot/warm and thus under pressure, it would have lost coolant and it would have been difficult if not impossible to replace sufficient coolant until the engine had cooled down. That could certainly cause overheating, which is its own problem but can also cause further damage, such as a blown head gasket. It can be tricky making determinations about these things, one reason being that a head gasket that’s blown (for any reason, including normal wear) will cause overheating. It’s like which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In my experience, tow truck drivers (I assume this applies to the AA man) sometimes make pronouncements about what’s wrong with the vehicle when they really don’t know. His comment about being surprised that this wasn’t found during the service suggests to me that he doesn’t have a thorough grasp of what’s involved here. As others have mentioned, the head gasket and the water pump may not actually be what failed.

In sum, the car will need to be tested and evaluated by a competent mechanic in order to reliably know what the situation is. It’s possible, but by no means certain, that the problem is related to a misstep in the servicing. It’s also possible, but probably unlikely, that it can be determined whether or not the servicing had anything to do with it.

12

Well, to be sympathetic, that is a good thing to check in UK. In the UK, I believe, the owner of the vehicle is responsible for obtaining and maintaining the “number plate”, akin to the license plate in the US. As many owners may not know all of the applicable laws concerning the condition of the number plate or when they need to be replaced. Having the mechanic make sure it meets all the requirements just makes good sense.

I had a French colleague who lived in the US for several years. When he moved back to France, he also shipped the car he bought while he was living here. When he has his number plate made, he used the same numbers as the license plate he had while he was in the US. (I don’t think it was legal, and for all I know, he had two plates made, one with his legal registration number and another with his phony number). I am pretty sure the UK uses the same system. That is, the government gives you the registration number and you go to a separate company that specializes in making the number plates and they make one for you.

13

The AA man is kind of like an emergency roadside mechanic/tow truck driver. My typical dealings with them have gone something like this went today - they initially diagnose the issue, then tow it to a local garage so that it can actually get fixed (while dropping the driver off somewhere sensible along the way). It is likely, I suppose, that your average AA man is not quite as skilled or qualified as a bona fide garage mechanic. The AA man has no vested interested, though, whereas a garage mechanic might…

The car is now back at the garage that it had its service at. It will be interesting to hear back from them. At the moment it sounds like ‘Car had a[n expensive] service, looked okay, then completely coincidentally the engine packed it in 5 days later’. I hope it’s not too melodramatic of me to be in a bad mood about that!

Thanks all - I will keep you posted.

14

That’s the problem with having your car serviced. In my experience, taking your car into the mechanic for any reason, even for maintenance, produces approximately an 80% chance that the car will experience an unrelated problem within 2 months.

15

Assuming you are all waiting with bated breath…

The garage today said that the head gasket was fine, and that the issue was a leaky thermostat housing. I asked the mechanic to explain it to me as if I was 5 years old - he did:

“This thing has water going through it. It broke, and water leaked everywhere. The engine got too hot because there wasn’t enough water going around and it all went wrong. Now I’ve replaced it, so it’s okay”.

(Not word-for-word, but pretty close.)

I asked him if this could have been spotted during the service, and he said (obviously, I suppose) that no it couldn’t have - because during the service it wasn’t leaking.

This garage has a lot of very good reviews, and it is an independent garage (which, the internet tells me, is a lot better than dealers and chains/franchises). I am still not entirely sure as to whether I can trust them, though.

Total cost was £150 (US$220) - a lot more cheerful than what (I gather) a replacement head gasket would have cost me.

16

I’m pretty sure this is a plastic housing, a relatively new design in some cars. Older designs, and many still used today, have aluminum or steel housings, which very seldom give trouble. These plastic ones, however, tend to weaken with age and crack.

My armchair evaluation is that the shop did nothing wrong, either by commission or omission. I’d say the root of the problem was a design engineer who chose a plastic thermostat housing plus the passage of ten years time.

This illustrates what I was referring to in regards to tow truck drivers. They sometimes make snap-judgment evaluations based on limited facts about the situation, and in some cases with limited expertise.

17

Shit happens. Not every failure is detectable.

18

Around here, a head gasket replacement will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000 to $1500 depending on the car. I’m glad it was something a lot simpler (and cheaper).

19

Looks like you blew a seal.

:smiley:

20

Loss of coolant can certainly blow a head gasket.

Anything that can contribute to a local hot spot (but not general overheating) can compromise a head gasket. If coolant flow isn’t optimal, it is possible to have a coolant reading in normal range and a particular cylinder with a localized hot spot, which compromises head gaskets.

Modern aluminium heads and open deck engines (if you have an open deck) can suffer extensive damage from even localized overheating, which often have a tell-tale blown head gasket.

It’s possible that while the scenario suffered was pending and inevitable, it could be brought on sooner by putting the engine under significant load, such as strong/hard acceleration, a demanding hill climb, etc
.