Bolivian President Shakedown: US Descends to Dubya Administration Levels of Stupidity, Arrogance

[Evil_Captor]

@Smapti

Does that answer your question?

Cite that Obama was in any way whatsoever involved in this decision?

I already covered that:

[QUOTE=from the OP]
Either Obama is a stupid lying hypocrite, or he is totally ineffectual as President, unable to control his State Department.
[/QUOTE]

So far as I know, the State Department is not SUPPOSED to make the President look like a liar and a blundering fool.

[Evil_Captor]

@Chronos

For that matter, cite that any American at all was in any way involved in this decision? Portugal and France both decided not to let the plane through at all, and Austria decided to search the plane. I suppose you could argue that Portugal, France, and/or Austria are stupid and should be embarrassed, but neither Portugal, France, nor Austria is the US.

Sure, provide a list of other countries that have a strong interest in getting at Snowden, and who have the clout to make the Portuguese, the French and the Austrians actually obstruct the travels of the president of a sovriegn state over it. I’ll be patient.

[John_Mace]

@Chronos

For that matter, cite that any American at all was in any way involved in this decision? Portugal and France both decided not to let the plane through at all, and Austria decided to search the plane. I suppose you could argue that Portugal, France, and/or Austria are stupid and should be embarrassed, but neither Portugal, France, nor Austria is the US.

Yeah, that’s what I don’t get. This all happened in Europe. How are we the bad guys here?

[Marley23]

@Evil_Captor

I’ll be patient.

And we’ll patiently wait for you to show that anybody was made to do anything. I have no trouble believing the U.S. asked these countries to deny clearance to Morales’ plane. The U.S. was in no position to force them to do that.

[Smapti]

@Evil_Captor

So far as I know, the State Department is not SUPPOSED to make the President look like a liar and a blundering fool.

Cite that the State Department was in any way involved in this decision?

[I_Made_French_Toast_For_You]

@Smapti

Does that answer your question?

And Clapper lied to Congress, which is a felony.

[BrokenBriton]

That answers the question in a more balanced way.

[Smapti]

@I_Made_French_Toast_For_You

And Clapper lied to Congress, which is a felony.

Clapper did not lie; he erred.

[BrokenBriton]

@Marley23

And we’ll patiently wait for you to show that anybody was made to do anything. I have no trouble believing the U.S. asked these countries to deny clearance to Morales’ plane. The U.S. was in no position to force them to do that.

Right. Thye leaders of those crazy countries all did it for the shit and giggles.

[Evil_Captor]

@Smapti

Cite that the State Department was in any way involved in this decision?

All right, Smapti, who do you think did it?

[RTFirefly]

@Marley23

And we’ll patiently wait for you to show that anybody was made to do anything. I have no trouble believing the U.S. asked these countries to deny clearance to Morales’ plane. The U.S. was in no position to force them to do that.

OK, we didn’t force them to do anything. But the violation of one nation’s sovereignty at the request of another sure does have something to do with the relative pull of the countries in question.

When you’re the big guy on the block, often you don’t need to do your own bullying; you can get others to willingly do it for you.

It doesn’t make either the U.S. or our allies look like anything besides major-league assholes.

[Smapti]

@Evil_Captor

All right, Smapti, who do you think did it?

You’re the one that’s outraged. Why don’t you provide some concrete evidence that your outrage is justified?

[Marley23]

@BrokenBriton

Right. Thye leaders of those crazy countries all did it for the shit and giggles.

Because those countries are not U.S. allies and would never have agreed unless the U.S. threatened to nuke them or cut off trade. This is some fascinating stuff.

[marshmallow]

@Evil_Captor

Ecuador and several other Latin American countries are mad as hell at us, and I’m SURE that France, Portugal and Austria are enjoyed the role of American stooges that they’ve been pressed into, all for no result.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say Obama doesn’t really cares about what they think. And it doesn’t really matter, as long as they do what they’re told. So it’s not stupid. Arrogant, maybe, but you could say that about everything the U.S. does, so whatever.

[RTFirefly]

@Smapti

Clapper did not lie; he erred.

Can you explain your distinction between a lie and a mere ginormous error by someone whose job it was to be knowledgeable about such things?

Please take into account in your explanation the three-month delay between the ‘error’ and the correction, and the fact that the correction only followed the public revelation that any such statement had to be completely and totally false.

[Evil_Captor]

@marshmallow

I’m going to go out on a limb and say Obama doesn’t really cares about what they think. And it doesn’t really matter, as long as they do what they’re told. So it’s not stupid. Arrogant, maybe, but you could say that about everything the U.S. does, so whatever.

They didn’t get Snowden. So it was a blunder. A stupid one.

[BrainGlutton]

“Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?”

– Catch-22, Joseph Heller

[BrokenBriton]

@Marley23

Because those countries are not U.S. allies and would never have agreed unless the U.S. threatened to nuke them or cut off trade. This is some fascinating stuff.

I’m going to have to assume a sense of humour beyond my ken.

[Evil_Captor]

@Marley23

Because those countries are not U.S. allies and would never have agreed unless the U.S. threatened to nuke them or cut off trade. This is some fascinating stuff.

We are talking the plane of the head of a sovreign state. It’s not a minor thing the US asked for. I imagine that the compliance was voluntary, but surely Portugal, France and Austria knew that Bolivia was not likely to be happy about this. Sure, it’s a small South American country, but it was not a minor thing, and those European officials involved in what amounted to the interdiction of Morales’ plane have to be pretty damned stupid to think it was. As tagos said:

[QUOTE=tagos]
Great. The first time Airforce 1 is forced to land and searched at the behest of China we’ll all be a-okay with it.
[/QUOTE]

[Chronos]

Quoth Evil Captor:

Sure, provide a list of other countries that have a strong interest in getting at Snowden, and who have the clout to make the Portuguese, the French and the Austrians actually obstruct the travels of the president of a sovriegn state over it. I’ll be patient.

No problem.

1: Portugal
2: France
3: Austria

Note: The above list may not be complete.

Now, one might fairly ask why these countries have an interest in getting Snowden. And the answer to that is obviously that the US wants him, the US is big and powerful, and everyone wants to be friends with the big powerful guy. So?