Fuck Off with your Feigned Outrage and Shock over Spying

The BBQ Pit
1

Every county spies to the extent that their resources allow. This has been the case since countries began. You spy on us, we spy on you, get over it. If you think your country is pure and innocent, you are a fucking idiot.

Face it, every country is out for themselves. That is why I understand that these assholes are just jockeying for advantage by pretending to be oh so surprised, shocked and outraged about something that they already know.

Listen up douche bags, we aren’t that stupid. We know that it is an act and that you are just using the situation to your advantage, just like we do with our control over the internet (as if you wouldn’t). So fuck off and shut your dickhole* with the pretending and self righteous bullshit.

And Snowden you are a fucking traitor. If you are such an idealist, why the fuck were you working for a defense contractor?

*Archer reference.

2

The outrage is part of the diplomacy/spy game, isn’t it? It gives a slight moral high ground for demanding concessions in whatever the next negotiations wrasslin match is that those ambassadors and whatnots do.

3

You are adamant that the US is within its rights to exploit its advantage and you are mad that others are doing so, when opportunity presents itself? Everybody else has seen a diplomatic benefit and they are gleefully exploiting it.

4

I don’t understand it either. So the US listened in on phone conversations of other world leaders? Duh-rrrrrr.

5

Spying on foreign governments (even our allies (maybe especially our allies)) may be par for the course and should surprise no one, but contravening the fourth amendment and spying on American citizens is not okay. Snowden is no traitor.

Or, since this is the pit, I guess I should say that if you think Snowden betrayed you, you’re a terrorist and an enemy of America, etc., etc., ad nauseam. I didn’t put enough "fucking"s in there, did I? I’m not very good at this.

6

I had heard on the top of the hour radio news, so no cite, that 3 years earlier when he was working at some other defense thing that his supervisor had told their supervisor that Snowden was acting shady and had been caught trying to get into things he wasn’t cleared for and should be investigated.

So it seems he got into it specifically to try to find some dirt to expose.

7

Yarp. It’s one thing to keep an eye on what’s going on with our neighbors and co-Earthers. It’s a bit nasty and it’s better if we all pretend it’s not happening, but we all know it is.

It’s another thing when the government starts including all of us on the list of potential enemies it needs to keep tabs on.

8

Don’t think browsing by-tor gonna save you, boy.

9

Wha?

10

He knows…Eat the code book!!

11

One, you’re implying that Germany and France etc. are hypocrites because they do this too. Do you have any evidence of that, or is it just your gut feeling? If you’re wrong, you’re wrong. If you’re right, it just means they’re better at spying and better at playing international diplomatic games, which doesn’t leave a lot of room up on your high horse.

Two, even assuming you’re right, just because everyone does it, that doesn’t make it okay. If everybody cheats on their taxes, is it okay for you to cheat on yours?

In other words, the OP makes an unsubstantiated allegation and stands on really shaky ethical grounds and is kind of a sore loser for this round of international politics.

12

This is what pisses me off. It’s not the spying and the double standards, which are the privilege of the most powerful nations, it’s that we handle the information so sloppily that some punk can get access to it and make us look like fools. “Bully” is a title I can live with (I don’t like it, but every major power becomes the bully for a while), but we’ve become the “Stupid Bully” and that’s just embarassing.

AK84 stuck his finger right in the open wound of this whole mess: We’ve become so self-entitled it’s hard to comprehend others are playing the same games we play, (political hay-making whenever expedient) and consider themselves our equals or even * gasp * our betters.

13

American exceptionalsim. We get to spy on everyone, but they don’t get to reciprocate. They should trust us. We’re the good guys-- or so I’ve heard.

As for the OP, you know what? Everyone probably does spy on everyone else. But everyone also gets to feign outrage when one of us gets outed. It’s all part of the game.

14

I understand why they are feigning outrage. I am just saying that it is fucking tiresome and obvious.

15

I know, I know - Americans would never get upset about a purportedly close ally having been caught spying on them…

But seriously, you ever consider that maybe “they” (never specified by you) aren’t merely simulating outrage, but are actually justifiably pissed off about recent disclosures of the NSA’s conduct? See:

“The German interior minister, Hans-Peter Friedrich, demanded an apology from the US. Until this week he has been the foremost figure in the German government belittling the impact of the NSA revelations and ascribing the furore to media hyperbole… Thomas de Maiziere, the German defence minister and a Merkel confidante, said he expected his phone to be tapped by several countries, but: “I didn’t expect the Americans”.”

“According to the press accounts, Americans have been engaged in espionage on France, Germany and other countries - on a scale so vast that even jaded officials say they are taken aback. “I am not naive. I know intelligence services have to do their job. But if it is true, it’s deeply shocking,” says one Western official. “And if it’s confirmed, the expression ‘abuse of power’, which has been used here and there, would not be entirely wrong. Of course, we are giving the US a chance to explain.””

“Very soon the spies will be back in business as usual. Or will they? Because while some of the surprise at the scope of US surveillance activities may be false, this is not all play-acting. There are genuine concerns and it would be wrong to dismiss all of the condemnation of Washington as hyperbole.”
There’s also the fact that the scope and scale of the NSA’s operations are such that European allies are unable to respond in kind, even if they were willing to do so:

“In an internal presentation, the NSA sums up its vision, which is both global and frighteningly ambitious: “information superiority.””

"“The rule is that everybody spies on everybody - except when they have an agreement not to,” says Steven Aftergood, head of a project on government secrecy at the Federation of American Scientists. “And then they may still do so.” Even given that tacit understanding, the US stands apart in the scope of its espionage capabilities. “Every country has weapons for spying, but most have the equivalent of a howitzer,” says James Bamford, who has written extensively on the National Security Agency. “In terms of eavesdropping, the US has a nuclear weapon.” Aftergood says, “We are photographing and listening to the entire globe.”

16

They should STFU and be glad we’re not bombing them.

17

Especially after the outrage (not feigned) of Pearl Harbor. Never forget!

18

I don’t get it. Why is everybody so pissed at Snowden for telling people stuff which apparently is no big deal anyway?

19

We need an enemy without and an enemy within so the government can suspend civil rights and declare war on its own people.

20

It’s like when you get pissed at your friend for telling your wife you’re cheating on her… which you aren’t, of course, it’s all totally innocent… but you can admit that in a certain light it could be seen as cheating, and you really don’t want your spouse getting all stressed over something that’s like, nothing, as you swear over and over…