[QUOTE=Jebus H. Christ]
Where are Bonds’ defenders?
[/QUOTE]
Apparently they’re busy making accusations of racism.
[QUOTE=Jebus H. Christ]
In baseball balck players have to be friendly or they are treated like shit.
[/QUOTE]
So, you admit that their behavior has someting to do with it? Would you agree that if Bonds were not an asshole, he might be getting more respect?
[QUOTE=mtk_]
Thanks.
Follow up: OK, so obviously bats aren’t standardised then, but are there any guidelines in terms of material, weight, size, etc? Surely a longer bat would be swinging faster and would impart more force (and hence more distance to the ball) upon contact? Are any potential benefits worth the trade-offs to swingability? What? It’s a word…
What about aluminium bats, are they just used for practice/amateurs/having-a-laugh-with-your-mates? (i’m working on the assumption that wood ones are standard)
Thanks again,
mtk_
Oh, and apologies for the hijack.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, but they are. Rule 1.10
1.10
*(a) The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2 3/4 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. The bat shall be one piece of solid wood. NOTE: No laminated or experimental bats shall be used in a professional game (either championship season or exhibition games) until the manufacturer has secured approval from the Rules Committee of his design and methods of manufacture. (b) Cupped Bats. An indentation in the end of the bat up to one inch in depth is permitted and may be no wider than two inches and no less than one inch in diameter. The indentation must be curved with no foreign substance added. (c) The bat handle, for not more than 18 inches from its end, may be covered or treated with any material or substance to improve the grip. Any such material or substance, which extends past the 18 inch limitation, shall cause the bat to be removed from the game. NOTE: If the umpire discovers that the bat does not conform to (c) above until a time during or after which the bat has been used in play, it shall not be grounds for declaring the batter out, or ejected from the game. (d) No colored bat may be used in a professional game unless approved by the Rules Committee. *
Most schools switched to aluminum bats because they last longer. Schools don’t have the budget the Yankees do.
[QUOTE=Jebus H. Christ]
Mark Maguire is as juiced as Bonds but is loved by baseball.
[/QUOTE]
Not so fast.
I say this as a St. Louis resident and a Cardinal fan. Mark McGwire is seen as an embarassment. He had a chance to stand up and either admit he used the juice or call Canseco a liar. He chose to do neither. And just that fast any benefit of the doubt he might have been able to coast on evaporated.
“Baseball doesn’t want strong intellegent independent black players.” Big deal. Baseball doesn’t want strong, intellegent, independent white players, or Hispanic, or Asian players, either. Baseball would like all players to be nice “ambassadors for the game.”
And Bonds is a terrible one.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Barry Bonds: How to be hated in baseball
Bonds is batting around .600 on this one.
[/quote]
His average would be lower if you included the following:
Does race have a role in some fans and even commentators’ dislike for Barry Bonds? Probably it does. But when you add up all the negatives and sleazy things about Bonds, I can’t see anti-black racism being much of an overall factor in his negative image.
He’s a jerk. He would have been recognized as a great hitter without cheating. As it is, his “records” are meaningless.
How about that Albert Pujols?!
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
It is going to be hard for me to find the cites, but there are now schools and semipro leagues that use only Wooden bats.
[/quote]
I believe you but it probably hasn’t been standardized.
That I wasn’t sure about but it makes sense.
[QUOTE=kunilou]
Not so fast.
I say this as a St. Louis resident and a Cardinal fan. Mark McGwire is seen as an embarassment. He had a chance to stand up and either admit he used the juice or call Canseco a liar. He chose to do neither. And just that fast any benefit of the doubt he might have been able to coast on evaporated.
[/quote]
Beautifully said. Mark McGwire is now a complete joke and almost a baseball non-entity. His performance in front of Congress was transparent and embarassing.
The terms of this debate are stupid. The best argument Jebus seems to be able to put forth is “Barry Bonds is treated differently from other people, therefore Barry Bonds is a victim of racism.” Bonds shovels out that kind of bullshit all the time, but I didn’t think anybody actually bought it.
Is Bonds treated different than McGwire was? Absolutely. But you’d have to be an idiot to think that it’s entirely because of race. It’s not 1998 anymore; baseball is not the same. The game and fans in general are no longer willfully ignorant of the issue of steroids and performance-enhancing drugs. Baseball fans have been watching the news for years and seen a constant barrage of writing and reporting about how many of the stars of the ‘90s were using steroids and similar means to get an edge. The proof of Bonds’ steroid use is also remarkably thorough and undeniable. It’s obvious what McGwire did, but the evidence is still circumstantial. If he was playing now, his treatment would be similar to what Bonds is getting.
And by the way: no matter what color he is, Bonds would be an asshole, and as far as I can see, he’s brought all of this on himself. He made the decision to use steroids, and he has consistently chosen to be a self-pitying jerk at all opportunities.
I’m not a fan of Barry Bonds. I was when he was chasing McGwire’s record because I was amused that a player whom the media hated was going to get the record, and I’m petty like that. But now I wish he would just retire.
That said, I think his race plays a role in the hatred people have for him. It’s hard to pin down because there will always be differences in circumstances, some confounding variable which makes comparison impossible, but I think there is a pattern. Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, Milton Bradley, all talented black men who have been declared malcontents and about whom all positive commentary is coupled with negative. “Good player but…” I can’t think of a white player who has been tarred with that same brush. Rocker said incredibly stupid things (though he did have his defenders), but his crimes were considered to be against the fans. He insulted people, so people hated him.
Compare that to Milton Bradley who was reviled by TV commentators during one game I was watching because he took off his batting gloves as he rounded the bases after a home run. The commentators talked about how he had an attitude problem, how the pitcher should throw at him, how he was risking his teammates’ health with his behavior, etc. I’ve never seen a white player, no matter how childishly behaving (Paul O’Neill, anyone?) get that sort of reaction from the guys in the booth.
I don’t have proof. It’s just a feeling, really, a sense that things are a bit out of proportion. I would like Bonds to retire because I am so tired of hearing about steroids, not because he’s a jerk (though he pretty much is).
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, Milton Bradley, all talented black men who have been declared malcontents and about whom all positive commentary is coupled with negative. “Good player but…” I can’t think of a white player who has been tarred with that same brush.
[/QUOTE]
Jeff Kent and Kenny Rogers come to mind.
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
That said, I think his race plays a role in the hatred people have for him. It’s hard to pin down because there will always be differences in circumstances, some confounding variable which makes comparison impossible, but I think there is a pattern. Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, Milton Bradley, all talented black men who have been declared malcontents and about whom all positive commentary is coupled with negative. “Good player but…” I can’t think of a white player who has been tarred with that same brush.
[/QUOTE]
Ever hear of a fella named Cobb?
To Mr. OP’er: If it’s the media that is racistly depriving Mr. Bonds of the benefits of hail-fellow-well-met collegiality, how is Major League Baseball supposed to change that? Revoke the locker room credential of any reporter who writes something negative about him? I honestly don’t think that would be effective. Yet you end your rant with a rousing chorus of “Fuck baseball.” It strikes me that “Fuck American sprotswriters and television sports commentators” might be a little more to the point.
Now, I, I have no use for Barry Bonds. He doesn’t cross my mind two times over the course of the normal week. But I don’t hate him (well except insofar as I hate everybody who plays for the Giants, except Willie Mays*). The one I HATE is Bobby Bonds, and that’s only because in his first career at bat against my Dodgers, he hit a freakin’ grand slam, and the Dodgers lost the game. I know, I know, de mortuis nil nisi bonum, and all that, but there are some things I just can’t forgive. Now, I realize that the Almighty does not record in the Book of Life baseball games that the Dodgers don’t win, but that means that to all intents and purposes, there was no baseball that day, and that’s just too sad a day to contemplate.
But by all means, fuck baseball. But fuck baseball for the right reasons, like the designated hitter, regular season interleague play, the antitrust exemption, eight-dollar beer, and this abomination. I mean what the fuck is that thing even supposed to be?
*BTW, the reason I don’t hate Wilie Mays is because I always found the Saturday moringin cartoon show, The Say-Hey Kid to be charming. Especially with the angel that looked like Casey Stengel.
Entirely? No Partly? Yes.
Is that racism? Of course it is.
I really don’t follow baseball so perhaps I’ve missed some of the news. Was it ever actually proven that Bonds cheated or is the matter still just a lot of suspicion?
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
Jeff Kent and Kenny Rogers come to mind.
[/QUOTE]
I think they are good examples of white players acting like complete asses but not catching the same flak. Watch Baseball Tonight. They won’t say, “Kenny Rogers, the troubled lefty…” or “Jeff Kent, the backstabbing second baseman…”
Jeff Kent is an absolute jerk, but look back over his fights with Barry Bonds. Kent’s word is taken as gospel. If Jeff Kent says that Barry Bonds would sit in his La-Z-Boy and refuse to do X, that was reported as a fact by the media. His penchant for stirring up trouble wasn’t reported as fact until he left SF, and even then such a big deal wasn’t made of it. Maybe in SF, but I live in Ohio.
Of course, Bonds is the higher-profile player, so more is going to be said about him in general, and the more sensational it can be, the better.
[QUOTE=Monty]
I really don’t follow baseball so perhaps I’ve missed some of the news. Was it ever actually proven that Bonds cheated or is the matter still just a lot of suspicion?
[/QUOTE]
Well, “cheated” is hard define in this context. I believe it is proven, in that he admitted to it, that he has used performance-enhancing substances. However, he says that he wasn’t aware that he was using them–that it was his trainer’s doing. Frankly, I don’t find that reasonable, since I would expect someone whose body is his source of income to be damned sure what he’s putting in it, but I don’t think his knowledge has been proven. Can you cheat inadvertently? I don’t know.
Other than that, there are a ton of allegations by people who say he did things on purpose, but none of those have been proven.
So, I hope that kinda answers your question. I’m no expert on the situation, so I could be missing something important.
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
Now, I realize that the Almighty does not record in the Book of Life baseball games that the Dodgers don’t win,(1) but that means that to all intents and purposes, there was no baseball that day, and that’s just too sad a day to contemplate.
But by all means, fuck baseball. But fuck baseball for the right reasons, like the designated hitter(2), regular season interleague play, the antitrust exemption, eight-dollar beer(3), and this abomination. I mean what the fuck is that thing(4) even supposed to be?
[/QUOTE]
Well-spoken. But…
(1) Prove it. Any day the Dodgers don’t win is a victory for Evil.
(2) An abomination in the eyes of the Lord.
(3) And it isn’t even good beer! Sure Dante saw a level of Hell reserved for concessionaires.
(4) I believe it’s Barry Bond’s ego out on a field trip.
[QUOTE=Jebus H. Christ]
Is that racism? Of course it is.
[/QUOTE]
You want to give me an example of something specific that’s been racist? You mentioned Sosa earlier - he was beloved until has was caught using the corked bat, and even that blew over pretty fast. Then he started being a jerk in the Cubs’ clubhouse, and somehow the fans didn’t like that. Somehow it damaged his reputation as a happy-go-lucky guy who just loved to play.
[QUOTE=Monty]
I really don’t follow baseball so perhaps I’ve missed some of the news. Was it ever actually proven that Bonds cheated or is the matter still just a lot of suspicion?
[/QUOTE]
A book called Game of Shadows was published some months ago that detailed what he’s supposed to have done, and when, in great detail using accounts from people around Bonds and court records from the BALCO trial. Bonds and his lawyers have not contested a word in the book.
This is why I hate Barry Bonds. Now he is about to pass his homerun total and he wants to make a big spectacle about it (or that’s my theory anyhow) so he changes his stance to:
You’re not in the same class you arrogant asshole (you still have 40 points to go on your lifetime batting average). Sure you’re good but you’re not Babe Ruth. For me, no matter who passes him down the road, the benchmark will always be Babe Ruth. I couldn’t care less that Barry Bonds passes it.
The company that he got his “supplements” from, Bay Area Lab Co. or BALCO, was convicted of supplying illegal steroids to people. Bonds testified in the case that he used two BALCO substances called “the clear” and “the cream”, and he didn’t know what was in him nor did he ask. Nobody’s proven that those substances had steroids in him, but why would a man who’s been grooming his body for decades as a world-class professional athlete (a) not ask what was in the stuff and (b) not start asking questions when he began to bulk up? IIRC he went from 160 lb to 230 lb over the course of two seasons and it wasn’t fat.
OMFG you are such a stupid fucking asshole, print this post up and take it to your safety deposit box for future reference you stupid fucking asshole. Try comparing reaction to Michael Jordan’s achievements vs. that to Barry Bonds cheated numbers, you stupid prick, Bonds was and is a complete fucking a-hole character-wise, if he did steroids live on TV every day would not diminish his humanity vs. legitimate competors i.e. Jordan, where was the race-related hate for Jordan or even Magic Johnson or even Jim Brown, you dick? Bonds ain’t Aaron or Jackie Robinson. Anywho, anyone who says the public’s reaction to Bonds is based on racism is a complete cock, in a bad way. God, you’re a dick.
Fuelled by blue label Smirnoff! Screw you racists! This being The Pit, thought I’d go off a bit as Bonds was always a total jerk when I lived in SF, you don’t even know, believe me.
[QUOTE=fetus]
IIRC he went from 160 lb to 230 lb over the course of two seasons and it wasn’t fat.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know if that’s true, but I know he put on 18 pounds of muscle between the end of the 2000 season (49 HR) and the start of the 2001 (73 HR) preseason. That’s a 36-year-old athlete, already known for taking meticulous care of his body, gaining 18 pounds of muscle in less than six months. That stretches credibility on his own, and we know he was hanging out with the steroid dealers.
[QUOTE=Jebus H. Christ]
Is that racism? Of course it is.
[/QUOTE]
The one problem is that you haven’t actually demonstrated anything, you’ve just said “it’s different, therefore it’s racist,” which is weak to say the least. You mentioned Sammy Sosa. Most people still liked Sosa even after the corked bat, and his steroid use was at least as obvious as Bonds’. After Sosa started acting like a whiny prima donna in the Cubs’ clubhouse, he lost fans. What a shock.
[QUOTE=silenus]
Well-spoken. But…
(1) Prove it. Any day the Dodgers don’t win is a victory for Evil.
[/QUOTE]
Well, ultimately, Evil will not prevail. So when the final score is toted up at the end of fime, there will be no victories for Evil.
