Bottle conditioning question for homebrewers

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve tried searching for some answers using google - but I’m either using the wrong search query, or the answer is simpler than I’m making it out to be (very possible).

I’m doing a batch of sparkling cider (here), and this is the first time I’ll be getting into carbonation. I’ve done several batches of wine with very good success - so I’m familiar with much of the basic homebrew process in general (sanitizing, primary fermentation, secondary fermentation, racking, halting the fermentation, clearing, etc, etc).

The instructions for this kit indicate the following basic steps:

  • Once primary fermentation complete, add the potassium sorbate.
  • Add liquid invert sugar to a bottle of flavoring, and add this mixture to the batch. The amount of invert sugar to use depends on desired outcome - dry uses 150 ml, medium uses 400 ml.
  • Cool batch and bottle via forced carbonation.

Ok - makes sense. Except that I don’t have carbonating equipment, and I don’t drink enough beer to justify the expense of purchasing a keg, regulator and CO2 tank. In talking with the guy at the local homebrew place, he said that I could carbonate in the bottle - I’d just have to skip the step of adding the sorbate. In other words, use bottle conditioning to carbonate.

At a high level, this makes sense. Keep the little yeasties going in the bottles and let them, and natural pressure, do the work. But I have a few questions:

  1. From what I did gather on google - some beers are ok with bottle conditioning, and some aren’t. The instructions for this kit made no mention of bottle conditioning. With a cider kit, would bottle conditioning be a bad match from the start due to a poor resulting flavor profile?

  2. Is there any way I can gauge how much of the liquid invert sugar would be used by the yeast? I generally like sweeter tasting beverages - so I was planning on 400 ml of the invert sugar. However, some of that will be used up. So I’m unsure if I should add in extra for carbonation overhead.

  3. Does the bottle conditioning reach an equilibrium at all? I would expect bottles that are consumed earlier to be less carbonated than bottles consumed later - but is there a point where the carbonation and left over sugar content remain stable?

Thanks for any advice or references!

(oh, this is a 6 gallon kit, btw.

2

If you’re going to bottle carbonate, you want to make sure you don’t use too much sugar when you bottle it (adding sugar at bottling to carbonate is called priming), otherwise you’ll end up with either exploded bottles, or bottles that spew everywhere when you open them.

One way to get around that is to refrigerate the bottles after they’ve gotten to the level of carbonation you want, which forces the yeast into dormancy, and they settle at the bottom. I’m not exactly sure how you’d do that, since I think (though I’m not 100% certain) that the amount of sugar you prime with affects the rate of carbonation. Maybe test it out with a single bottle. After 3 days, refrigerate the bottle and sample it. If it’s carbonated and sweet enough for you, refrigerate the rest of them. It probably won’t taste its best, though, since you’ll need to further age the cider.

Please note that I am by no means an expert on the subject, so if someone comes along and directly contradicts me, take their advice, not mine.

3

I think I may have found something. At least a start.

This page provides an explanation for how much sugar to use, in chemistry terms.

This page also has some info.

Although, the question of how to have a sweet tasting beverage while doing bottle conditioning still remains. Just seems like the bottles would get more fizzy and less sweet as time goes on. And though I like cider, I doubt I’d be able to drink 6 gallons of it in the short period of time that would represent the peak balance :). I guess that’s where refrigeration would come in - but I dont have the fridge space for that!

4

Where do you live? If it’s a relatively cool climate, and you have a garage or basement or other dry area, you could store the bottles there after a short trip to the fridge. After the yeast are dormant, as long as you keep the bottles below 50-60 degrees they should stay that way (assuming you used a wine or ale yeast. If you used a lager yeast, you’d have to shoot for lower than that, but since fridge space is an issue, I doubt that’s the case).

5

also putting the bottles in a large tub or heavy box for a while until the carbonation stabilizes. That way if a bottle bursts you dont end up with glass shards everywhere.

Eventually the pressure will get to the point where the yeast cannot excrete any more gas into the solution.

6

hmmm, I would let the primary fermentation go on for a while. If you’re worried about yeast decay, then I would rack into a secondary fermenter. My understanding is that cider will take quite a while to completely ferment. what you’re aiming for with bottle fermentation is that you calculate about the exact amount of fermentable sugar you need (be it from some kind of added sugar after the primary fermentation or the residual primary fermentation or a combo of the two).

in other words, if you rack the primary fermentation when it’s (pulling numbers out of the air) 95% complete, then you just need to let it sit in the bottle and that remaining 5% will do the trick.

So, I would let that primary fermentation go on long after it seems like it is finished. Then, when you calculate how much additional fermentable sugar to add (corn sugar, malt, honey, etc), I would add it to the big fermenter to uniformly mix it before pouring into the bottles. Eg, it"s a pain to measure the additional fermentable sugar into each bottle.

When I brewed a lot of beer it was 1/2 to 3/4 *cup *corn sugar for 5 gallons of beer. the more sugar the more fizzy and bubbly.

You can Bing sparkling cider priming sugar guideline. Here’s a link:
Computer aided recipe design
http://winemakermag.com/stories/article/indices/27-meadmaking/498-mead-nectar-of-the-gods

I’ve also never used inverted sugar, which seems to be prevalent in the UK. Dunno, but guessing it would give a taste like that of regular sugar, which is definately not something you want.

7

I live in Massachusetts - the basement is probably somewhere around 65-68 or so right now, and it’ll drop a few degrees over the next couple months. But not near enough to keep the bottles cool enough, unfortunately.

I think the original recipe calls for invert sugar because its sweeter than table sugar - but again, that is assuming the carbonation is going to be forced. In reading up on stuff last night, it definately looks like corn sugar is common with bottle conditioning. The instructions say to definately NOT use brewers glucose, and that corn sugar may be used, but will cause sedimentation. They make it sound like the preferred is invert sugar, second being table sugar, and third being corn sugar. I’ll have to look more into the flavor imparted with invert sugar as opposed to corn.

Thanks for the help/suggestions so far!

8

Perhaps you could try adding some lactose. It isn’t fermentable by normal brewing yeast, so it should add sweetness without adding carbonation provided that the cider does not get contaminated with any lactose eating bacteria. Or you could use an artificial sweetener like splenda.

In either case I would suggest taking a sample of the cider and adding known quantities of sweetener until it suits your tastes. Then add a proportional amount to the whole batch.

I think the other answers have it covered on adding sugar to carbonate. I would definitely go the non-fermentable sugar route rather than mess with bottle bombs. If worst came to worst, you could always just stir in a teaspoon of sugar at the time of consumption.

9

Headdesk I don’t know why I didn’t think of lactose. This sounds like your best option, unless you or someone you plan on sharing it with are lactose intolerant. Artificial sweetener might be okay, but it seems like you’d have to deal with the artificially sweet taste. Even Splenda doesn’t taste exactly like sugar to me.

10

I’ve used both lactose, and splenda in my ciders. 1# of lactose is generally recommended, but for some reason, probably my yeast choice, my ciders tend to ferment out very dry, so I tend to add 2# of lactose to a 5gal batch. I do make sure that those having my cider have no lactose issues prior to serving. I use unpasturized cider from the local orchard, heat to 170F for 10 minutes, and dissolve in 2# of dark brown sugar prior to fermentation. It’s got kick.

If I’m using Splenda, I use 4 cups to 5gal (my Kool aid jug gets 1C/Gal, and I want my cider slightly less sweet), and 1C of corn sugar (I like it to be “over bubbly”) for priming in the bottle.

You can also always add more sweetener (honey, table sugar, splenda) at serving time to sweeten to your taste.

Skip the Pottasium sorbate if you’re going with a bottle condition.

You’ll get some sediment, but cider is best served in a pint glass IMO, and you stop pouring just as the yeast flows into the neck of the bottle. (I drink the “dreg” direct from the bottle) As the bottles age in your basement, the sediment firms up over time, and you get more out of each bottle, but you’d only ever be losing an ounce or so if you pour this way. If you’re not worked up about “clarity” of your cider in the glass, pour the sediment in. It’s rich in B vitamins, which help prevent hangovers.

This thread, btw, would probably do better (though it’s done just fine here) in CS, as it’s food related.

I’m not sure where in MA you are, but eastern MA has a host of homebrew stores, and I’m sure they’d be willing to answer any question you may have with a phone call, or a visit. Or here, this board seems to have a few brewers, and cider is just another component to most of us.

It’s been a bit since I’ve sampled some of my product, I’ll have to pull out a few bottles tonight. To answer your statement about “peak freshness,” I’ve had bottles as old as 2 years that still tasted great. Stored in cool (basement) conditions, and brewed with an ale yeast (or specific cider yeast), I find it doesn’t start tasting good for 6 months to start with, at a year, it’s barely hitting it’s stride, though mine doesn’t generally last that long.

11

I use glass bottles with spring stopper lids for my cider and other brews (as on this page) - not only are they re-usable and easier than crown caps, but the stopper also provides a natural safety valve.

This year, I made ginger beer and elderflower ‘champagne’ in them and they more or less cannot explode - when the pressure gets too high, it just quietly vents, but they retain enough gas to force a really vibrant sparkle into the brew.