I think something else that contributes to the issue is that kids have been increasingly active in a lot more activities than in days of yore. My brother was in Boy Scouts and Little League, and that’s it. That was pretty typical back in the Sixties. His experiences, by the way, were good ones. I would have enrolled my son, but his father said the Scouts were “too militaristic.” :rolleyes:
The Girl Scouts have been struggling for years, though they’ve tried to combat it with Girl Power themes and have said they’ll allow boys. I was a Brownie and then, briefly, a Girl Scout. Back then I felt special wearing my Scouts uniform to school.
I think it’s important to note that any positions, paid or not, where adults interact with kids and build their trust is a lure for pedophiles. I’m not saying most youth group or recreation program leaders, pediatricians, daycare workers, teachers, etc. are pedophiles; very few are, but people shouldn’t have a false sense of security because their kids aren’t in Boy Scouts. Only a tiny percentage of pedophiles are Boy Scout leaders; the rest get access to kids in other ways.
My scout troop met in the basement of the local a synagogue . There is as others mentioned non-denominational reference to God in scouting, but it’s not specifically Christian.
I was a boy scout in the '60’s. My sons were not when same age in 90’s because…no specific reason I can remember. One of them is a pretty major outdoor type as adult so it’s not that they wanted to sit inside and play video games. I might have suggested it and they didn’t want to at the time for whatever reason (I joined because friends from the block, both Catholic like me and Jewish, wanted to not because my parents wanted me to).
The fact that civic organizations are generally weaker is not good generally IMO. Though I like I said, I can’t say I did a lot to sustain the Scouts in the next generation of my family.
FWIW (not a whole lot because if sexual abuse occurs fairly rarely that’s still way too often) my experiences with Scout leaders was always positive. I dropped out because we moved and, again for no specific reason I can remember, didn’t pick it up in the new place.
Not only that, but if a kid is “active” in a sport or activity, it’s now far more likely to be a huge sink of time than it was back then (and not just for the kids, but for the parents, too).
As a single kid from a single mom, Scouts introduced me to opportunities and experiences I would have never had otherwise. As a child growing up in a home full of domestic violence and as a victim of sexual molestation, Scouts gave me a respite and something to look forward to on a regular basis away from the chaos. The men who were the leadership of our troop, in their own limited way, showed me a “normal” model of male behavior. They helped shape my beliefs on trustworthiness, respect for self and for others, loyalty, community and charity, and good citizenship to name a few.
This news saddens me for many reasons and it saddens me even more to see people jumping in glee over this outcome with snarky ignorant comments. The Boy Scouts of America are a great organization for boys and teenagers. If I had had boys instead of girls, I would have them participate in Scouting with no reservations at all. Without question I believe the people and the proper organizations need to be held accountable for the actions that occurred related to sexual abuse - without question. I just deeply hope that the Boy Scouts survive as an organization.
Call it the decline of “ceremonial Deism” in American private life: Back not very long ago, there was a broader expectation that people would be religious, with a similar expectation that such religiosity wouldn’t really impact their day-to-day life or even their moral sense very much. So there were more “religious” organizations which didn’t have a lot to do with religion defined as being a dogmatic creed, you were just expected to bow your head when the leader mumbled something at the beginning of the meeting and then everyone got on with things.
The religious want their religion to be religious, and the rest of us have exited into a society which isn’t judging us for not playing along. Hence the Mormons and the Southern Baptists making their own parochial scouting organizations. Hence mainstream Scouting, one of those “ceremonially Deist” groups which meets in church basements and has religious language in its creed, declining among people who don’t have any use for such things.
I’ll say the religious groups fired the first shots in this one, but going beyond that would land us in Great Debates.
I spent a short time as a cub scout when I was whatever age cub scouts are. I was a little uncomfortable with the god thing. I was born an atheist, and in cub scouts I was constantly told I was wrong. Fuck that.
I don’t question that you benefited greatly from the Boy Scouts. But what values do they really espouse? This is what I mean by hiding bigotry behind good works:
Respect for self and for others… so long as they are not gay.
Community and charity… among straight Christians.
Good citizenship… except for the Equal Protection Clause.
The Boy Scouts of America are a great organization for boys and teenagers… who are not gay or transgender.
And I’m not, of course, suggesting that all, or even the majority, of individual members have these attitudes. But when organizations as a whole embrace bigotry as en explicit core value, you can’t just let it go. And I can’t respect people who join such organizations on the basis that they will just ignore it because of the good stuff. There are other ways to do the good stuff.
I don’t really care if the Boy Scouts as a group makes it through this or not. I didn’t intend to imply any bias in my question. I was just legitimately curious.
But, since you brought it up, I will just point out that one could use your reasoning to argue that police departments should never be held liable for any wrong doings or civil rights violations. After all, the only people who are going to pay that settlement are the tax payers. Why should they pay for something a department, or rather, an individual officer did wrong?
I don’t necessarily disagree with your conclusion. But I definitely disagree with your premise and the argument you used to get there. Hell, the families of today’s scouts actually get to decide if they want to continue to belong to the organization and wish to continue supporting it financially–including funding their legal obligations. They don’t have to remain with the organization. I wish it were that easy to stop paying taxes that will just go to the next victim to be raped in police custody.
Tax payers have more of an argument for not paying those lawsuits than the families of today’s scouts.
They were dragged there kicking and screaming. And even when they did ostensibly end their policy of bigotry a few years ago (after Obergefell), to great fanfare, look what was hidden in the small print:
So they haven’t actually banned bigotry within their organization. All they have said is that bigotry is no longer an obligatory national policy, and local Scout groups are free to continue with their bigotry if they choose to do so.
It’s transparently a conservative Christian organization.
Exactly. And given their history, the “don’t ask don’t tell” type of bullshit won’t cut it. They need to cut all ties to bigoted Christian organizations, take drastic steps to cull bigots out of their organization, put in place clear national policies to actively teach and promote diversity. Otherwise, as Acsenray said - best that the organization just dies and something civilized replaces them.
Electing an LGBT national leader might be a good start.
This was the Girl Scouts, but still: When my wife aged out of Brownies and wanted to join the Scouts, it was run as an invitation only social club and my wife and the other Jewish girl in her Brownies troop did not get invitations. She knew they could probably complain to the national organization, but didn’t want to join under those circumstances. This was in Southern NJ (Exit 1).
On the other hand, my daughter was very happy in Girl Guides here in Montreal. Though they met in a church basement, there was no religion even implicit.
To add to the pile on, my dad started a troop at our shul, and we went to a Kosher camp that was part of the big Ten Mile River camp run by the Greater New York Council.
Great camp - they didn’t trust us to wash the dishes.
My father was also Scoutmaster of the UN troop which did not have “A Scout is Reverent” in its laws. Thanks to the Soviet Union, he said. (This was 1950.)
But the US Scouts are anti-atheist (we had to go to services) and very Mormon until they more or less pulled out after the LGBT rules changes.
Now, neither of those “require religion” from the standpoint of “you must be a member of a church” or “you must regularly attend religious services.” But, the Scout Oath and the Scout Law both contain explicit declarations of faith, which Boy Scouts are expected to recite.
What exactly are you rolling your eyes at? What shouldn’t I “get started” on? You say these things like something is self-evident to any normal person. It’s not.
Do you think bigoted organizations are just fine, and we shouldn’t be so mean to them?
. There is as others mentioned non-denominational reference to God in scouting, but it’s not specifically Christian.