Suppose Pedro and Monalisa went out on a date night. They end the night in a bar. When it’s time to go home, Pedro says he doesn’t think he should drive. He tells Monalisa that he’s been keeping track of her drinks and he’s sure that she’s good to drive. Relying on Pedro’s assurances, Monalisa starts driving them home. Turns out she’s over the legal limit, gets in an accident, and Pedro is killed.
Should Monalisa be charged with drunk driving causing death? If convicted, should she go to jail?
She’s lost the love of her life and has two children to look after - and she has to tell them how she killed their father by driving drunk. And, the accident only happened because she relied on Pedro’s assurance that she was good to drive, so doesn’t he bear the responsibility?
I don’t know. There are still elements that distinguish the two cases. For instance, it’s hammered into teens head these days that driving drunk is bad, and if monalisa is so drunk she can’t remember that she’s had more than two, that’s kind of on her. But if people can testify that Pedro pressured her into driving, yes I think that’s a mitigating factor. In this case, she didn’t know a lot about guns–I’m guessing–and Pedro seemed pretty clueless himself. Movies depict all sorts of wildly unrealistic things about guns. Also, again, we are harsh on drunk drivers because it is a widespread problem. People asking to get shot isn’t.
Also, I’m not sure what benefit is gained by discussing things that didn’t happen, instead of the actual facts of the case.
For the most part, yes, I do think he bears responsibility. I’m not sure it’s entirely analogous to the case at hand, but I would tend to say that if he pressured and reassured her that she was okay to drive, and it’s not something she otherwise would normally do then, yes, Pedro kinda gets the brunt of the blame there from me. If I convince some guy who is tripping balls to take me in a car and drive me to Milwaukee and he ends up getting into an accident that kills me, yeah, you betcha I think I’m the fucking idiot for pressuring him to it.
Prison as punishment is good for the same reason that punishment is used for anything. Do you not understand the concept of punishment and what it is used for?
When considering how the law should operate in a particular case, it’s important to consider not just the facts of the particular case, but the general context of the law. Giving analogous hypotheticals often helps participants in a discussion to consider the implications of their position more generally.
I more-or-less agree, but don’t think prison accomplishes anything in this particular case (as your purpose in the second sentence), and may even not be in the best interest of society.
Here we differ. I think in most cases that may be true, but not in all. It’s not black-and-white to me. That’s fine. I don’t think we are going to see eye-to-eye on this.
That’s okay I don’t think jail/prison is a great punishment for all crimes, but when it involves the death of a human being through sheer stupidity, then, yeah.
To save me from looking through the other thread, how do you feel about the prison sentence for the girl who texted her boyfriend to kill himself?
She was stupid, yes. She made a mistake, no way. I have never held, let alone fired a DE, but I can only imagine the thing kicks like a mule; it’s the biggest (semi-auto handgun) gun in existance. Was she holding the gun or was it locked down in a rig so that it could only shoot straight? I could imagine my first time with one I might be a bit flinchy on what I’d expect was coming. What if a bee lands on her hand? IOW, a couple of degrees of (unintentional) movement, that book is untouched & he doesn’t have a head. That’s reckless. Criminally reckless.
A & B go out drinking. A drives to the bar in his car. Both A & B decide that A is too drunk to drive home so B takes the keys to A’s car while A sits in the passenger seat. B crashes the car; A is killed. “I was less drunk than A” wasn’t a good defense at B’s trial; he went to jail. I knew B, a little. Never met A.
Horseshit! The penalty for killing someone while DUI is a lot less than other forms of murdering someone.
I don’t think jail/prison is a great punishment for all crimes, but when it involves the death of a human being through sheer stupidity, then, yeah.