What domestic enemy do they think they’re defending anybody from?
Target practice. It still pisses me off though their their run on ammo caused prices to skyrocket like crazy.
Are you really this uncomprehending of what you read?
The point is to assemble as a group to show each other that there are others who agree with them and to show potential enemies of the constitution that they won’t obey those orders. No one is fighting currently. No one is disobeying unconstitutional orders currently.
So I can’t really answer your straw man, because well, it’s a straw man.
A friend of mine quit the police force because he couldn’t stomach the drug war anymore. It’s actually kind of unfortunate that these sorts of principled officers are pushed out by an increasingly tyrannical police state.
Evereybody in the military already takes an oath. What distinguishes these people from everyone else in the military? Aren’t they redundant? What’s inadequate about the military oath as it stands? what makes these people oath-ier than the rest?
If there are no enemies, then what are they upset about.
Look, man, these guys clearly formed as some kind of half-assed political response to the Obama election. Let’s be honest. They think the “enemy” is Obama. Why try to obfuscate that?
The cop quitting over the drug war thing, I can understand, but these guys aren’t just talking about quitting, but taking up arms. I commend your friend for following his conscience (seriously, good for him), but would you support him if he began to advocate shooting DEA agents?
I don’t know about individual members but the organization is not promoting child abuse. But it is promoting insurbordination.
If an organization declared that the war in Iraq was unconstitutional and urged soldiers to sign a pledge to refuse any orders to be deployed in Iraq or if an organization declared that drug laws were unconstitutional and urged police officers to sign a pledge not to enforce any drug laws, that would be wrong. And this is no different. Members of the military and police force take an oath to obey orders and enforce the law as they exist and not as they might wish them to be. Encouraging the principle of “I’ve got a gun and a uniform so I’ll decide what’s constitutional” is a really really bad idea.
Actually, Police and Military usually take an oath to uphold the constitution & uphold laws, usually in that order.
Yeah, maybe it would be wrong. But there sure as hell wouldn’t be much condemnation of it on this board. There would be lots of praise, though.
I doubt that, actually.
Why do you doubt it? The Iraq war and the war on drugs are so unpopular that I think soldiers/LEOs who refused to participate in them would receive quite a bit of praise. I know that there are soldiers in Israel who have famously refused to participate in (what they consider to be) inhumane actions in the occupied territories and they have been much-lauded by many left-wingers that I know. I am sure the same would be true in America.
Because when I tried to praise US soldiers who deserted or refused to go back to Iraq, I was a voice in the wilderness on this board.
Now that this is competely off topic (as usual) and has played out almost exactly as I said it would here (as usual, less a few participants), could a moderator please come and close this trainwreck? Thank you.
One time, just one time, I wish we could have this discussion without insults, hijacks, rhetoric, and hyperbole. You know, like intelligent, dignified people?
But without people hysterically vocalizing their irrational phobias of inanimate objects, making up statistics out of whole cloth, and accusing the other side of being child rapists with small penises, there wouldn’t be anyone to speak up for the anti-rights side at all. This is one of those issues where all the reasonable arguments fall to one side, and thus any call to “debate” is just an engraved invitation for people to engage in logical fallacies and childish behavior.
That’s honestly what you think? The way I see it, the pro-gun side always becomes hostile, rigid, self-righteous and utterly closed off to hearing any discussion at all about the slightest regulation of their toys. There is also no shortage of demeaning and belittling language of those who disagree with them, included the ridiculous (and highly wishful) meme that anyone who favors any kind of regulation of firearms is “afraid” of them.
And I am against prohibition of firearms.
As soon as someone on the anti gun side can provide a reason for regulation that is based upon a shared common sense, with measurable goals and can be logically proven to actually have an effect on any particular crime statistic, without unduly frustrating or persecuting the folks actually abiding by the laws, perhaps the debate may change its tone.
Here is a first step, and not aimed towards anyone in particular, take a couple of moments and actually learn the basics of firearms, the difference between semi and full auto, etc. and present your new laws with some, rather than emotion on your side.
That should have read:
*present your new laws with knowledge, rather than emotion on your side. *
Missed the edit window.
ALL types of firearms?
For gun nuts there are 2 kinds of terrorists. They fear the El Qeada types who are trying to kill them. Only it is so overblown as to be a joke. Then they fear the Liberals who are after their guns. Only they are not. Can you find a couple anti-gun types who will say things that will upset you and will terrify you? If you want to. But the cold hard fact is guns are practically ignored in the political arena. Almost nobody gives a shit about your basement arsenals. Almost nobody is trying to pass legislation against your babies. You can stack up all the guns you want. No-one cares. Get back to the real politics that is threatening your rights.
You must not get out much. California gun owners may disagree just a bit. Those in Seattle and NJ would probably disagree as well.
Sure, what do I care. In for a penny, in for a pound. Tanks, nukes, anthrax. I don’t care.
Don’t forget New York City (and State) & Detroit, also Chicago and the entire state of Illinois.