Yes, Septima, you’re right. I obviously advocate the same approach for all forms of sibling conflict, because it is always malicious bullying and will lead to a lifetime of pain and suffering for all involved. One size always fits all, zero tolerance is the only way. I am a terrible father, as is proven by the outcome of raising 3 kids. I bow before you. :rolleyes:
I don’t really get where you’re getting the idea that no one gives a crap about this. You may redirect the insulted party with a brief “well, are you?” but that doesn’t mean you don’t ever speak to the insulter and tell them to cut it out. And where are you getting the idea that the world just shrugs when siblings hit each other? It’s possible to treat each incident in a low-key, non-reinforcing way while still working towards the larger goal of not having the incidents in the first place.
You make it sound like every household with more than one kid is Lord of the Flies, with parents just sitting around saying, “Wow, sucks to be you” to their kids.
“Well, how can we fix that? Need some ideas? Would you like to find some healthy recipes and I’ll teach you how to cook them? I know, let’s go play in the park after school!” I mean…yeah, some kids *are *fat and ugly. Doesn’t mean they can’t change that if they want. And what’s the alternative? Lying to the kid? Enabling the problem? “Oh, you’re not fat, she’s just jealous of your belly rolls. Here, have another cookie.”
Most of the time, kid insults are just ridiculous, even if they are accurate. My mom once had a student come sobbing in from recess because someone called her a…a…a…VIRGIN! She didn’t know what that was, but she knew it was just awful!
Sometimes, you just have to move on with your day. You can’t always make people feel better when their feelings are hurt. At some point, they have to find their own internal strength, and you help them build internal strength in those moments when they’re *not *being bullied. That doesn’t mean you ignore bullying, but it does mean you have to pick your battles, and know you’re not always going to get it right, because sometimes there is no right.
[QUOTE=lorene]
You make it sound like every household with more than one kid is Lord of the Flies, with parents just sitting around saying, “Wow, sucks to be you” to their kids.
[/QUOTE]
Well, that’s what it sounds like to me, on the outside. I’ve stated several times that I know I’m wrong. But it still looks like that, and I still don’t get it.
[QUOTE=Doctor Jackson]
Yes, Septima, you’re right. I obviously advocate the same approach for all forms of sibling conflict, because it is always malicious bullying and will lead to a lifetime of pain and suffering for all involved. One size always fits all, zero tolerance is the only way. I am a terrible father, as is proven by the outcome of raising 3 kids. I bow before you.
[/QUOTE]
I did not mean to insult your parenting. I’m really sorry for managing to do that. I know that the best authority on how to raise your children is you, and I defer to the actual parents who have used this method with good results. You know best, you’ve been there, and I haven’t, and that’s as far as that goes.
[QUOTE=lorene]
And where are you getting the idea that the world just shrugs when siblings hit each other?
[/QUOTE]
By observation. By listening to people tell “hilarious” stories about the time their brother thew rocks at them and they had to go the emergency room, and all the people with siblings laughing, and all the onlies just looking at each other uncomfortably. Or watching little kids fighting and the parents just rolling their eyes (and again, I’m sure the parents were the ones acting appropriately and I’m the insane one). By just…well the general tone between folks, you know? Siblings hit each other, and destroy each others stuff, and humiliate each other at school, and fuck up each others accomplishments and people just expect it, and treat it as normal behavior. Well, it isn’t normal to me, which makes me the abnormal one. I know that. But I just can’t shake it.
Or, you know, this thread. Not a single thing in there was funny to me. All of it was screamingly awful. I think of that thread when imagining hell. And almost every goddam poster in it thinks it’s hilarious. I Just. Don’t. Get it.
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
“Well, how can we fix that? Need some ideas? Would you like to find some healthy recipes and I’ll teach you how to cook them? I know, let’s go play in the park after school!” I mean…yeah, some kids are fat and ugly. Doesn’t mean they can’t change that if they want. And what’s the alternative? Lying to the kid? Enabling the problem? “Oh, you’re not fat, she’s just jealous of your belly rolls. Here, have another cookie.”
[/QUOTE]
You’re always such a wise voice, and I’m sure you’re right. But I keep imagining the moment when the parent says “Well, are you?” and the kid is forced to choose between giving the expected, sanctioned answer (“no”) by lying, or be forced into admitting to being this, in their mind, awful thing. I’m sure I’m the crazy one here, but I know that his approach would have just torn my self-image apart when I was little, and ingrained into me that I had no right to take issue with anything anyone ever did to me. It sounds like, to me, the message being given is, “well, you might not be whatever it is he called you, but you sure are an idiot for whining to me about it, cuz I don’t give a damn.”
I had never seen that thread. I get what you’re saying; there are a lot of extreme examples there.
It’s not at all a case that some of us are right and some of us are wrong, either, and I didn’t mean to imply that you’re wrong. To be certain, there are parents who should intervene more. There are parents who should intervene less. And a parent might need to intervene more with their firstborn and less with their next born.
My personal feeling is that there are many, many shades of gray between calling your sibling stupid and humiliating them, between crumpling someone’s paper and fucking up their accomplishments. And if a kid is wandering closer to the cruelty and humiliation side of things, a good parent wouldn’t say, “Well, I’m committed to just using ‘well, are you?’ as my strategy, so that’s that.” A good parent would course-correct to remedy the situation.
Yes, absolutely, nothing is black and white here. And I’m really sorry for derailing this lovely thread with my neurotics. 
Right. “Well, are you?” is a great response for a lot of situations. In other situations, the right answer might be “Well, why would they say such a mean thing? You didn’t do anything mean to them first, did you?” , or “Wow, that’s mean. I’m going to make them come in and apologize to you.”
My niece (aged about six) was very jealous of her little sister, aged about two. So one day while we were visiting my parents’ house, I got out my collections of dolls in fancy dresses and music boxes and let her play with them. After a little while, she said with extreme reluctance, “I guess we’ll have to let Little Sister play with them now.”
To which I responded, “Oh, no. Little Sister is too little. She wouldn’t know how to be careful with the dolls and might tear their dresses. And she wouldn’t know how to be careful with the music boxes. She might break one. You’re a good big sister to want to share the fun with her, but I’m afraid she’s just too little.”
While I was giving this speech and Niece was staring at me, wide-eyed, my mother stepped into the room and immediately left, so that she wouldn’t laugh.
According to my sister, Niece spent the entire five hour drive home describing in detail how much more mature she was than Little Sister. (Apparently, she wanted to subscribe to my newsletter.)