I tend to agree. It looked to me like Brady already had his other hand on the ball, tuck therefore complete. But that’s the way that one went.
As for yesterday, that was one of the worst calls I’ve ever seen. Norv Turner said that Hochuli even admitted to him that he blew that one. And it’s all well and good to say that they should have held them anyway, but when you’ve had TWO lousy calls in one game that gave the ball to the wrong team, it’s got to be demoralizing. The Chargers DID recover a fumble, for all the good it did them. I think the ref was more than a little trigger-happy with his whistle on that play.
I understand where you are coming from, I just think your assessment of the Chargers saying they didn’t man-up enough to earn the victory is a bit harsh. They did what they needed to do to win and the refs blew it for them. And, as you pointed out earlier, that is part of the game. They still had 2 more opportunities to win and they blew it.
I would love for you to explain this to anyone from the '72 US Olympic basketball team. 36 years later, they’d still punch you in the face for telling them it’s their fault that they didn’t stop the layup after the refs screwed them by adding 3 seconds to the clock.
Those refs added 3 extra seconds. Hochuli added 2 extra plays. At some point a team has done enough to win and shouldn’t have to do any more. As bad as the Chargers defense was, they actually shut out Denver in the second half until “The Hochuli Debacli”, as I read someone call it earlier (which I think is pretty funny, btw).
And as far as the “extra 14 points” is concerned (and it was 15, really, with the 2 point conversion), the Hochuli call has overshadowed the earlier extremely dubious “interception” that would certainly have been overruled on replay… except that the replay equipment was somehow malfunctioning. 70,000 people in the stadium saw it on the Jumbotron or on any of the 5,000 high-def TVs in the luxury suites, and everyone watching at home saw it as well, but apparently Ed’s little TV was broken so the terrible call on the field stood - leading to a quick 7-0 Broncos lead. Who knows where this game goes if the Chargers don’t have that possession stolen away as well. The team that wins the turnover battle usually wins the game, and the Bolts should have been plus-two instead of even.
I’m not going to be convinced that the refs lost the game for the Chargers. I’m just not. You see two bad calls. I see a Broncos team that allowed 103 yard kick-off return. That gave the Chargers a new set of downs multiple times because of illegal formations and illegal touches. I see a Broncos team that threw a motherfucking interception in the redzone. I see a team that allowed more than one catch for not only multiple yards but for touchdowns. In other words, I see that the Chargers had more than enough opportunities to man up and win the game. They didn’t. Boohoo.
And I’d say the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. It’s never just one call–it’s sixty minutes of calls and good plays and bad plays and fumbles and interceptions and penalties and touchdowns. Maybe I am being too harsh when I say that they should have cowboyed up and played the game, but whatever. This isn’t a fucking tea party or a pick up game in the backyard with ten year olds and tender feelings.
Um, okay. I wasn’t alive in '72, and I have no idea what you’re talking about (for some reason, rewatching old Olympic basketball games has never been high on my list of things to do), but I’ll take your word for it. Of course, if they had played better, or made different decisions, or hit a three pointer instead of having it bounce of the rim (I’m imagining since I’ve never seen the game) that final layup and those 3 seconds wouldn’t make all the difference.
Are you serious? That point is called the end of the fucking game when the clock is 0.00. That’s when a team has “done enough to win” and not one second before that.
Yeah, too bad they couldn’t shut them out for two more plays, huh?
For example, imagine a flea flicker where the back turns around and throws the ball back to the QB overhand instead of picthing it underhand. This is an exact replica of the normal throwing motion in every way, only it’s facing backwards relative to the line of scrimmage.
If the back gets hit during his throwing motion and the ball comes flying out erratically, I’m fairly sure that’s a fumble, not an incomplete pass, because his arm motion started backwards relative to the line of scrimmage.
And yet you seem to be missing the point that the entire reason this play has become such a big deal is that had it simply been called correctly the game was over. Cutler fumbles, the Chargers kneel out the clock, game ends. If this had happened in the second quarter it would have been heinous, but would not have been the entire first 10 minutes of conversation on ESPN’s First Take this morning.
People forgive mistakes early in games because there are an infinite number of ways the game can go from there with no way to even begin to guess how the outcome has been affected. Hochuli’s mistake directly and immediately dropped the Chargers from first place in the AFC West to last, two games out and a tiebreaker down. It is a big deal, whether you care to admit it or not.
Sure it’s a big deal. And it put the Broncos up to 1st place in the AFC west and and gave them the tiebreaker. Fan-fucking-tastic. I couldn’t be happier. In fact, I had to explain the import of the game to my sister who wandered into the living room at the top of the 4th quarter when I was about to blow a fuse.
I couldn’t be happier that the call went the Broncos way. I never said it wasn’t a bad call. And I certainly never hid my eternal devotion to the Broncos. I agree it was a bad call. I agree it was a big deal. I agree it affected the division in a big way. But that still doesn’t change my view about the role the Chargers play in deciding their own destiny. They had the same chance the Broncos had at the line of scrimmage. They were called upon to step up twice more. They didn’t. They lost. To quote the Internets, “Cry more.”
Care to quote the rule where that is defined as a tuck? The rule is explicit: it is a fumble if the ball is tucked against his body, not just his other hand.
For how long? If the hand doesn’t count as part of the body for the tuck, then how long could a QB stand there with just his hands on the ball after a pump fake or aborted pass attempt and not have it called a fumble if it’s knocked loose? Two seconds? Five? One?
How many times does a team have to win the game before you think they have done enough?
The Chargers made a great stop. The game should have been over at that point.
There is no comparison to situations in which the game is not over.
So okay, the Chargers made the play and won the game. A bad call gave the Broncos another chance.
What would you say if the identical bad call happened again the next play? How many times in a row do the Chargers have to make a very difficult stop? Would doing it twice in a row have been enough, even if the Broncos were given a third chance and won?
It’s really hard to muster up any sympathy for the Chargers, whose players are the whiniest and have the most douchebaggery per capita in the league. Poor Complainian, did those big bad meanies imitate a signature douchebag showboating celebration of one of your teammates? Maybe if you didn’t have a signature celebration, it wouldn’t be mocked when you lose.*
And hey Philip, what the fuck is your deal? Why, exactly, are you such a prick? Did Jay Cutler bang your sister and not call or something? There isn’t a whole lot more low-rent than a starting QB talking shit to another starting QB. (And Tom Brady won no repect from me when he trash-talked that Steeler safety last year.)
Anyway, your post is just whiny enough to be right in the Chargers’ wheelhouse, so good job on that.
(*Thank friggin’ god Strahan dropped that douchebaggy jump shot bullshit last year. That was painful.)
By that logic, so is his right hand. So the ball is never un-tucked. Ever. He could be standing on it and according to you he would still have it tucked against his body.
I thought about this after I read the rule. I don’t have a good answer and the rules don’t seem to specify it. Obviously this rule was written with the intention that the QB would pull the ball down and start running with it, tucking it against their body as they did so.
I’m not trying to defend the rule, but just the call. As written, I think the official made the right call. It might be a really stupid rule because as you point out a QB might be able to do what you suggest, but it appears to be the rule regardless.
