Another football rules question

QB throws a pass toward the sideline. Defender jumps up and catches the ball but would land out of bounds if he came down.

Instead he tosses the ball forward to a teamate. Is that an illegal forward pass or is it ok since he never really caught the ball not having come down in bounds?

There used to be a rule that didn’t allow two defenders to touch a forward pass before catching it, but that might have been repealed.

It would either be an illegal forward pass, or illegally batting the ball forward depending on how much control he had.

These threads make me miss the old “You Make The Call” commercials.

Aren’t you confusing that with a rule that two offensive players couldn’t touch the ball? I think that one has been changed though.

Two defensive players have always been able to.

OK, so what if it was an offensive player? Would it make a difference if it was batted/thrown backwards? And finally, for extra credit, would it make a difference in any case if the original pass from the QB was a lateral?

No, any intentional act to throw, scoop, or bat the the ball forward(the way your team is facing) is illegal(except for an actual forward pass).

It makes all the difference. You can always throw or bat the ball backwards. But if you didn’t have control then they must catch it normally, or else it’s an incomplete pass, not a fumble. There is an old play call the hook-and-ladder(which really should have been hook-and-lateral) Where the reciever would grab and immedatly push the ball back to a trailer at full speed. It worked for good yards a lot and I remember several times when the initial reciever pushed the ball back without ever touching the ground.

That actually get’s a little wierd. If the Quarterback laterals it to another player, then that player can pass the ball forward. Assuming the ball did not pass the line of scrimage at any point. A QB often will pitchback to an RB, then that RB will throw a pass, and it’s called a halfback option pass. However I have only ever scene it with total possesion by the halfback. Never an attempt to throw or bat the ball forward before possession.

However there is a specific NFL rule against just batting the lateral forward in flight, and claiming it was an ugly forward pass. But I’m not quite sure if you technically have to have possession in what sence. If you do grab it in both hands and then make a throwing motion, without ever landing… I have no idea if that is considered batting the ball or not. Damn good question.

I’m not sure of the NFL interpretation, but in the NCAA, this is “batting” and that’s ok (as long as it’s a forward pass – batting rules change on backwards passes).
It doesn’t appear to be in the rulebook – but that was the response from the NCAA office after a similar play happened last year or the year before. I’m seeing if I can hunt it down.

I take it back, it is in the NCAA book. AR 7-3-6-X:

X. While airborne, eligible receiver A89 touches a forward pass when he propels it toward: (a) eligible receiver A80, who catches the pass; or (b) B27, who intercepts the pass. RULING: Legal play, and the ball remains live in both (a) and (b). A89 has batted a forward pass (Rules 2-2-7, 2-10-3 and 9-4-1-a).

This is based on a play in the 2002 Peach Bowl. I’m having trouble hunting down the bulletin that clarifies that the catch-and-toss is a bat (since it’s not a completed catch), since I think it came out in 2003.

Can I hijack this question to ask one of my own?
AFAIK during punts when the ball is bouncing towards the endzone, if it passes the plane of the endzone, it’s a touchback. (even if the kicking teams’ player jumps from a position with both feet in play into the endzone and bats it back out of the endzone where it is touched) Let’s start with that one. but if I"m right and that’s true, is the same true for the sidelines on a pass play?Let’s say the QB throws the ball out of bounds…but not by much. If a defender jumps from a position where both feet are in play and bats the ball back into play where it is caught by a teammate who is in play. Does it count as an interception? Or is the same thing I think is true; Once the ball hits the plane of the sidelines it’s considered out of play.

Not true. The air above the sidelines is considered in-play to infinity. It’s only once you touch the ground do you become out of bounds. So a defender could bat the ball to a fellow defender so long as neither touches the sideline itself.

The same applies for the endzone on punts, a defender can leap into the endzone and bat the ball back into play so long as his feet do no touch in the endzone. The “plane of the goal” rule only applies to ball carriers attempting to score or attempting to avoid a safety.

Actually I am wrong :smack:.After looking it up, anybody can bat a forward pass anywhich way they want to, in both NFL and College.
I was lied to a long time ago. Sorry.

In college football, the plane of the goalline still applies to punts. If the ball is batted while it has broken the plane, that’s a violation (not a foul) that results in a touchback being awarded.

In the NFL, this is not true – the ball can be hit back from the endzone as long as neither the player nor the ball have been grounded in the endzone.

Ok - here’s a situation that came up in a recent Texas HS playoff game. Texas HS uses almost the same ruleset as NCAA football, so we’re using those for the rulings.

Video of the Event

This is (if I understand the situation correctly) the last play of the game, with the offense down by 4. What’s your call?

Looks like a valid “hook & lateral” to me.

Did the first reciever have posession long enough to make it a complete pass?

Control and one step I believe is enough

That’s the question at issue here.

After a few more people have responded, I’ll weigh in with what the zebras called.

If he was able to take the ball and toss it to his teammate, that should be enough. I don’t know what the rules say, but the idea that you can’t make a lateral until after X seconds (or one step, or whatever) is more than a little silly.

That’s a bat (and incomplete pass). If there were no one there to pick up the ball, no one would expect it to be called a fumble.