You are obviously not a true Texan. 
Being somewhat familiar with the Lubbock airport, I can easily imagine being desperate for something to relieve the tedium there.
???
How do you figure?
-FrL-
How do I not figure? They don’t get money to say that TSA sucks, or that it doesn’t suck. They’re just coming from their experiences. Always a much more reliable guide than anything coming from someone with a vested interest. Really, is that so hard to understand?
I guess you mean it’s unlikely someone would just make up a complaint because there’s nothing in it for them. I’d grant that in general, but once someone has decided to complain, they do have an interest in making the people they’re complaining against look as bad as possible, and that does not always entail being completely honest with themselves or others about all of the events in the incident. Furthermore, it is easy to make mistakes about what’s going on, even if your interest lies in (or intention is to) be completely truthful. This latter kind of situation is what I’ve been saying probably happened in the case mentioned in the OP. The lady probably heard somebody laughing about something, and assumed (almost certainly incorrectly) that it was TSAs laughing at her.
And… “Really,” was any of that “so hard to understand?” :rolleyes:
-FrL-
By the way, if anyone hasn’t noticed it yet, I’ve started an “Ask the former TSA” thread here.
To be clear, that thread is absolutely not supposed to be a continuation of this thread’s conversatin. I just figured some people in this thread might find that thread interesting.
-FrL-
No, I understand your point perfectly. But I have heard from several people on this board about TSA agents who are rude and unprofessional in their conduct, and I give their testimony much more credence than yours. Sorry about that. Frankly your notion that TSA agents couldn’t POSSIBLY be that uprofessional is unbelievable even without contrary evidence, given the nature of human beings.
One of her piercings could be removed by unscrewing the end and pulling through the hole. The other was a captive bead ring (CBR). A CBR stays closed because the ends of the ring grip the ball, which is held in place by pressure. To remove a CBR, you use special notched pliers to open the ring slightly and remove the bead, then remove the ring. It is especially difficult and painful to do without the notched pliers, and if it goes through thick tissue because the size of the opening is very small. It’s not easy to remove a CBR, because it’s not intended. That piece of jewely is supposed to be pretty well permanent unless you go to your piercer and have it removed/changed.
Spend a lot of time traveling and you get quite a picture of the general behavior of TSA employees. I have no problem at all believing that they handed this woman a pair of pliers so that they could laugh about how they made one of the peons do something that was painful and embarassing.
Their jobs only exist because of those stupid rules which they claim to hate.
And that’s if they didn’t whip the tasers out.
I don’t find it hard to believe that a TSA employee who gave a crying woman a pair of pliers to very painfully remove a piercing from her nipple in a dirty airport would laugh at that same woman. It’s exactly the sort of thing that a bully does.
As a veteran of more than 1,100 flights, I can post scads of negative experiences with TSA agents, either directed towards myself, or a traveling companion. I somehow have a feeling that they all would be dismissed out of hand as prejudice, misinformation, mistakes, or flat out lies just to gain some advantage, so I’m not going to waste my time. They’re doddering Barney Fife wannabe’s at their best, and out and out abusive criminal bullies at their worst, and again, as long as people continue to feed the addiction to air travel it will not only continue, it will get worse.
And folks don’t think TSA agents would snicker at someone? I’ve personally heard a TSA agent call someone a “stupid nigger”, another call someone a “little faggot”, and a third call someone a “stupid piece of shit.” I guess I made all those up to make the TSA look bad though, since I’m well known to do that…and I’ve heard lots of snickering, out and out laughing, and mockery of every sort, including directed at me. So just secure that bullshit about how unbelievable it is. Can I also post about the attempted theft of engineering equipment by a TSA agent I personally witnessed? (oh wait, I did already, but can’t find the thread) How about the one who tore my coat and told me to shut my face when I complained? The one who let some other passenger walk off with my laptop and told the cop I was a “troublemaker” when I tried to get my laptop back? How about the time a TSA agent told me that even though I had not one, not two, but three doctor’s notes telling that I needed my insulin syringes, told me that “I don’t care, you can’t take these on a plane”? (oh yeah, and it was also “suspicious” that I had more than one note…God forbid you try to get backup documentation). I’ve had them seize my insulin bottles, even when they were in the little stupid baggie, and even though they had the prescription with them, telling me that it was ILLEGAL to bring insulin on a plane? How about the ones who confiscated my blood glucometer and told me it was an “illegal electronic device” to take on a plane? What about the one who told me I couldn’t pass through security unless I put on my glasses, because even though I was wearing contacts he lied and said “you have to look EXACTLY like your photo ID.”( I asked if I needed to have the same haircut too, and was told to “shut up if you want to fly today”.)
Naw, couldn’t be. The TSA would never do that. Not in a million years. You want I can keep posting things like the above. The female co-worker who had a male TSA agent hold up her shoes and call them “fuck me shoes” with a sneer on his face. The co-worker who had his bag dumped out on the floor and who was ordered to pick it up or “it’s going in the trash.” My stepfather who had his wallet which was somehow inspected because it was “suspicious” handed back short $40? No, the TSA would never do that.
I wonder how many people actually “need” to travel by air, anyhow, and what would happen if there was an honest to God boycott of air travel until the TSA treats all customers as human beings who pay their fucking salaries, and until all airlines are held to an inviolable passengers bill of rights? Post 9/11, for the first couple of months, I saw how empty the planes were. In talking to folks then, I found that pretty much everyone I was flying with were the folks who truly had to fly - military personnel, and people for whom no flying = no job (like me…). The result was many cases where there were 20 people on a 737. So I know there must be a huge amount of air travel that is totally discretionary.
I’d say it would only take a 1-2 month boycott before things would change. I cut my air travel by about half in the last year in response to the unmitigated mule muffinry that air travel has become. I’m sure a lot of us could do similar.
I backed off from exaggerated “impossibility” language several posts ago. Have you not been reading the thread, then?
I’ve also argued that human nature in general (forgetting the question of TSAs specifically) is such that it is much more likely that the lady was mistaken than that people were laughing at her. Knowing what its like being in customer service in general, and knowing that it is human nature in general to avoid trouble and bide one’s time until one can go on break, I am led to believe that it is, in general, more likely that people are mistaken about being laughed at in situations like this at than that they were actually laughed at. That’s just a general fact about situations like this, abstracted from the TSA angle. It’s not impossible, it’s just much morelikely that someone who reports something like this has made a mistake. And given what I know about what it’s like to be a TSA, it’s all the more likely (again, this is not the language of “impossibility”) in this situation that the woman is mistaken.
-FrL-
I flew about once a month during 2005-2006, and shuttled back and forth almost weekly the end of 2006, and I guess I’ve been incredibly lucky in my contacts with TSA agents. Outside of one incident (described recently in another thread) I can’t remember ever being treated rudely by a TSA agent, or even noticed one acting in an unprofessional manner. I’ve had my CPAP examined after being X-rayed, usually to have the case wiped for explosives; once it tested positive and was retested, then I was asked a few questions about where the case might have been which could have exposed it to substances which would show up on the test. The agent was polite and non-confrontational, and eventually decided that it was safe to release the case. Another time my carry-on bag was pulled to be hand-searched because the scanner showed something questionable. Again, the agent was polite, as she practically unpacked it, checked all the compartments, and even ran it through the scanner a second (and possibly even third) time without finding anything. She was obviously confused a bit by the fact that something was showing up on the Xray that she couldn’t find (I remember her asking me if I might have a corkscrew in the bag), and several times apologized for the delay.
One time I started to walk through the metal detector with a bag still slung over my shoulder and all I got from the TSA agent was, “Uh, Sir, your bag?” I grinned sheepishly and put it on the belt, and he smiled back at me. Another time I arrived at the airport without my ID (long story) and needed to go through extra security including a hand wanding and pat-down. No snark or rudeness that time either.
I’m not saying that the things described by Una Persson and others don’t happen; maybe I’ve just ben lucky. And for the record, I think all the regulations regarding liquids, shoes, etc are stupid and I understand why people get upset by them.
I confess I am somewhat shaken by your post. On the other hand, in another thread you said the following about flight attendants:
This has un-shaken me to some extent. For its clear that you exaggerate about this kind of thing, whether intentionally or not.
-FrL-
Don’t you think it’s more than a bit disingenuous to wave your hand and dismiss my testimony above by linking to a post I made which was a clear and deliberate exaggeration? If I cared enough to flog the Search engine I’m certain I could play the same game with your posts and dismiss them, but let’s try to be a little bit adult on here.
The above post I made contains my assertion, not backed up by Googled cites or video evidence or anything, based on my experience. The other post you linked to was clear venting, and I did not say that I was specifically told to “sit down, eyes to the front, shut the fuck up.” Your options at this point are to say I’m mistaken, insane, or lying (or more than one, I reckon). Your option is also to say I’m operating on confirmation bias, ignoring innumerable times when TSA agents were helpful, polite, and professional. Your options are not to engage in faulty logic or personal attacks to dismiss my testimony. Please move forward keeping that in mind.
From my wife (the former TSA):
“One of my co-workers, when he was on break, was harassed by a passenger. During the course of that incident, my co worker-said “You know, you’re a real jerk.” As a result of making that single comment, my co worker was fired.”
She also did mention that there was a time during which any liquids, including medicines, had to be put into checked baggage.
-FrL-
and once again, you seem to believe that your wife’s experience trumps everybody else’s.
In other words, there was a time when an insulin-dependent diabetic, with doctor’s prescription and note, was unable to bring their insulin on board with them? Or an asthmatic with a fast-acting inhaler? Or Epi-pens for an allergy sufferer? Something they could die without? I’d really like to see a cite for that ever having been an actual, national TSA policy from an official government source. I do recall that mistakingly local airports were seizing (and trashing, without compensation) prescription medicines, but that it was due to poor training of the staff, or “rogue staff”, not that it was ever an actual policy.
I don’t see the problem. You said what you said about flight attendants, and it shows that your credibility when it comes to judging the nature of these kinds of incidents is not as high as you would like. You exaggerate about this kind of thing, even if unintentionally.
But, as I said, I’m not completely un-shaken. Sounds like you’ve had some really bad experiences, (I can’t believe you just made all that up,) and I’m very disappointed about that.
What is the interval of time over which you’ve flown 1100 times?
I think you have exaggerated. I don’t know whether its intentional or not. And I also think you’ve had some really bad experiences.
I figured this was such an obvious point to make, I didn’t need to make it. Indeed, you went ahead and made it for me.
I didn’t mean anything to be a “personal attack.” What happened was, not knowing you from Adam, I went looking through your posts to see if you have a habit of exaggerating or making amazing claims. It is absolutely valid to judge the credibility of someone’s account based on the believability of past accounts. Interestingly, the only amazing claim I found (but I only looked back three or four search pages or so) had to do with flying on airplanes. It was the claim that flight attendants are typically incredibly rude. Sure you didn’t mean what you actually said literally, but the message you were trying to get across, and which I’m sure you stand by, is clear–you claimed that it is typical–normative–for flight attendants to be thoughtless or even malicious. This is an amazing claim. That you would make this amazing, unbelievable claim on the topic of flying in airplanes, combined with the fact that you clearly have strong negative feelings about the airline industry in general, and think people are in some sense “addicted” to it services, all does validly lead one to question your credibility here. You should be understood to be especially prone to confirmation bias, unintentional (or, I admit, intentional) exaggeration, etc.
-FrL-
If you’re talking about my post just before yours, I’m just reporting what my wife just said upon reading Una Perrson’s post. I’ve already acknowledged I don’t believe Una Perrson was just making all the things up that she reported.
-FrL-
Let’s be clear about something, though. Testimony from someone I know personally, and very well, and who I trust as a result of that personal familiarity, is always going to trump, for me, testimony from someone online who I have no connection to, who I have never interacted with before.
But my epistemic situation in a case like this is different from most that of most people following this thread. I don’t expect people to believe what I’m saying just becaus I’ve said it. There are anecdotes and arguments being presented from both sides in this thread, and that’s all that can be offered.
-FrL-