Bread machine dough, oven bake - Help Please

[congodwarf]

I have finally found the perfect white bread recipe and after making 5 loaves in the bread machine, I want to start using the oven.

I have it going in the machine right now but on the dough cycle only. It wasn’t until after I started it that I realized that I don’t have a clue how to make bread in my oven.

-After running the dough cycle, I remove the dough and shape it to a loaf and put it in the pan - yes?

-Do I need to let the dough rise again in the bread pan? Is this just a matter of opinion? My house isn’t known for being warm. If I’m gonna let it rise again, should I put it in the oven on warm and then preheat the oven after it rises again? Should I just put it on the hearth in front of the fire? Does it need to be in a warm place?

-Do I grease the bread pan? Butter or shortening?

-Some people say to put a pan of boiling water on the bottom rack of the oven. Why?

-Some people say to split the top. Is this necessary or is it just for appearances? If I am going to split it, how deep do I go?

-Some people said to brush the top with melted butter and others did not. What’s the difference? Also, one person mentioned splitting the top and then stuffing with butter pieces and then brushing butter over the top. Sounds like a lot of butter to me. What’s the point?

-Do you have any other recipes that make a particularly wonderful loaf of bread, whether you cook it in the oven or the machine?

-Where the heck can I find Rye flour? After scouring the baking section at Shaw’s, I was able to find All-Purpose flour, Bread flour, Wheat flour, Gluten-Free flour. No rye flour.

-Just how hard is it to make real sourdough bread?

-I want to make a loaf of pumpkin bread. I’m not looking for bland risen bread or a spicy batter bread. I want a spicy/sweet risen bread and I can’t find a recipe. I’m tempted to just wing it but as you probably noticed, I’m not exactly the baking experimenting type. I use recipes. I like recipes. Recipes keep me from exploding things.

[Sigmagirl]

@congodwarf;13009904*

-After running the dough cycle, I remove the dough and shape it to a loaf and put it in the pan - yes? *Yes.
*-Do I need to let the dough rise again in the bread pan? *
Yes.
*Is this just a matter of opinion? My house isn’t known for being warm. If I’m gonna let it rise again, should I put it in the oven on warm and then preheat the oven after it rises again? *Putting it in the oven on warm likely is too hot. You might turn on the oven for five minutes and then turn it off, about half an hour before you’re ready to start the rise. It depends on your oven thermometer, but you should be able to put your hand on the oven rack without burning yourself.
*Should I just put it on the hearth in front of the fire? *You can, but it will rise more on one side than on the other, so you’ll have to rotate it.
Does it need to be in a warm place?
Yes.
*-Do I grease the bread pan? Butter or shortening? *
Yes, either is fine. It’s good to sprinkle a little cornmeal in the bottom.
*-Some people say to put a pan of boiling water on the bottom rack of the oven. Why? *
This is for bread made with little or no fat, including fat from eggs, butter, or oil. You want a crisp crust, and the steam created will keep the outer layer of dough moist enough to expand before the crust is created. For a rich dough, you don’t need the steam.
*-Some people say to split the top. Is this necessary or is it just for appearances? If I am going to split it, how deep do I go? *
If you’re baking in a pan, the bread will rise up, because the sides of the pan will confine it. Breads baked without pans or molds should be scored to “show” the dough where to split, much as perforations “show” paper where to tear. Cut with a very sharp blade just through the “skin” of the dough.
-Some people said to brush the top with melted butter and others did not. What’s the difference? Also, one person mentioned splitting the top and then stuffing with butter pieces and then brushing butter over the top. Sounds like a lot of butter to me. What’s the point?
That is a lot of butter. I don’t know of any recipe that calls for that. A little butter would help with a nice color, and the sugars and proteins in milk will caramelize for color too.
-Do you have any other recipes that make a particularly wonderful loaf of bread, whether you cook it in the oven or the machine?
Lots. I’ll get back to you.
*-Where the heck can I find Rye flour? After scouring the baking section at Shaw’s, I was able to find All-Purpose flour, Bread flour, Wheat flour, Gluten-Free flour. No rye flour. *
http://www.kingarthurflour.com.
-Just how hard is it to make real sourdough bread?
Not hard, but kind of time-consuming in that you have to have a starter and maintain it. You can’t let it die.
*-I want to make a loaf of pumpkin bread. I’m not looking for bland risen bread or a spicy batter bread. I want a spicy/sweet risen bread and I can’t find a recipe. I’m tempted to just wing it but as you probably noticed, I’m not exactly the baking experimenting type. I use recipes. I like recipes. Recipes keep me from exploding things.

Looking. I’ll get back to you.

[twickster]

Moved IMHO --> Cafe Society.

[Sigmagirl]

Well, I really tried to fix the coding on that, and the whole thing froze up on me. I hope you can read it.

[congodwarf]

Thank you. No problems reading it and it was very informative.

[congodwarf]

@twickster

Moved IMHO → Cafe Society.

Damn Damn Damn Damn. I could have SWORN I put it there.

Sorry Twicks

[Mangetout]

Yes, you should let it double in size after you punch it down into the loaf tin. The ambient temperature doesn’t really matter all that much, unless you’re on a schedule - if it takes an hour to rise, that’s OK. If it takes half a day, because it’s cooler, that’s not a problem.

Lightly oiling the tin should make the bread easier to get out of the tin - if it’s a nonstick tin though, you probably just don’t need to. I have a stoneware loaf ‘tin’ that isn’t nonstick, so I tend to brush it lightly with oil, then dust that oil with a layer of flour and shake out the excess - this results in a clean release every time.

Real sourdough is no harder than any other kind of bread, really. If you know someone who already has a sourdough starter on the go, you might be able to beg a piece of it and feed it with flour and water to maintain your own starter, or you can just boot one up from scratch yourself - I’ve done that a few times (different results each time, in terms of flavour, but all of them good) - my first attempt is detailed here:
http://www.atomicshrimp.com/st/content/wild_yeast

[Sigmagirl]

I’ve found a few recipes for yeast-risen pumpkin bread, but I think they’re mostly what you’d call “bland risen bread” because they’re adaptations of Southwestern/Native American recipes. There’s one called Pumpkin Pumpernickel in Beth Hensperger’s Bread for All Seasons which I will gladly type up for you if you want, but it doesn’t look like it. There’s one for pumpkin brioche which sounds a little more to your taste; brioche isn’t for a beginning baker, but if you want to give it a try I’ll type it.

Here is a recipe from the King Arthur site: Pumpkin Yeast Bread Recipe | King Arthur Baking
It got eight five-star reviews and one four-star. These people are pretty honest, so I’d trust it. They also tweak things, so you can read their suggestions in the reviews.

Finally, I would think that if you found a recipe calling for sweet potatoes, you can substitute pumpkin.

I would go with the King Arthur recipe first.

[Mangetout]

@congodwarf

Some people say to put a pan of boiling water on the bottom rack of the oven. Why?

It makes the crust go crackly and golden. You’d think moisture in the oven would make the crust soft and doughy, but it’s completely the opposite.

-Some people say to split the top. Is this necessary or is it just for appearances? If I am going to split it, how deep do I go?

The top of the loaf can sometimes dry and form a skin during the last rise before baking - and this can restrict the ‘spring’ (the amount by which the loaf expands further during baking - splitting the top allows for a bit more spring, and in theory, a lighter texture to the crumb.

-Where the heck can I find Rye flour? After scouring the baking section at Shaw’s, I was able to find All-Purpose flour, Bread flour, Wheat flour, Gluten-Free flour. No rye flour.

Health food shops, or foreign deli-type grocers. Rye bread is difficult to work with, though - you probably want to mix rye with other flours until you get used to it.

Do you have any other recipes that make a particularly wonderful loaf of bread, whether you cook it in the oven or the machine?

See if you can get some wholemeal Spelt flour - Spelt is an ancient grain related to wheat - and it makes a really tasty wholemeal loaf with a surprisingly light and fluffy texture.

[Walkabout]

Probably too late to help you today, but maybe it will help in the future:

@congodwarf

-After running the dough cycle, I remove the dough and shape it to a loaf and put it in the pan - yes?

Yes.

-Do I need to let the dough rise again in the bread pan? Is this just a matter of opinion? My house isn’t known for being warm. If I’m gonna let it rise again, should I put it in the oven on warm and then preheat the oven after it rises again? Should I just put it on the hearth in front of the fire? Does it need to be in a warm place?

Yes, the bread will need to rise again before you bake it. It will rise if you just leave it for a while at room temperature or even in a refrigerator, but the colder it is, the longer it will take. The best temperature is 78 degrees Fahrenheit. Don’t let it get too warm though - like in an oven over 100 degrees or so - that will kill the yeast. Let it rise until it’s about double in size.

-Do I grease the bread pan? Butter or shortening?

Yes, grease the pan. Either will work, but butter will add a little flavor to the crust.

The rest of your questions have been covered by people more knowledgeable than me, and I’m afraid I don’t have a recipe for pumpkin bread.

Good luck with your bread!

[congodwarf]

Thank you for all the tips everyone.

It came out beautiful, and the flavor is perfect. Unfortunately, my non-stick pan sticks, even with the sides and bottom greased. So now I have more questions.

1. How long after the internal temp reaches 200° should I be removing it from the pan? I’m trying to make perfect sandwich bread and this is completely destroyed when the top comes out and the bottom stays in.

2. I’ve read that you should test the temp from the bottom. Um, how? If it’s in the pan, how the hell am I supposed to get the thermometer in?

3. Why is my non-stick pan sticking? Is there a certain type of pan that produces better bread?

[Musicat]

Pumpkin bread…take a white bread recipe (3c bread flour, 1TBL sugar, 1TSP salt, butter, water), add some pumpkin pulp (from a pie filling can), some brown sugar, cinnamon, nutmeg. Continue as before, but it might need a little more cooking time than white bread.

Sorry, I don’t cook by measuring. I add what seems right, and taste as I go.

[congodwarf]

@Musicat

Pumpkin bread…take a white bread recipe (3c bread flour, 1TBL sugar, 1TSP salt, butter, water), add some pumpkin pulp (from a pie filling can), some brown sugar, cinnamon, nutmeg. Continue as before, but it might need a little more cooking time than white bread.

Sorry, I don’t cook by measuring. I add what seems right, and taste as I go.

Well that seems easy enough. I will give that a try. Thank you.

[Mangetout]

If the loaf is breaking when you remove it from the pan, the oil+flour dusting thing might help - brush the pan lightly with sunflower oil, then dust with flour, then put in the dough and leave to rise. When the loaf bakes, the oil+flour will bake into a thin additional crust layer that is really easily fractured, releasing the loaf.

[Sigmagirl]

@congodwarf

Thank you for all the tips everyone.

It came out beautiful, and the flavor is perfect. Unfortunately, my non-stick pan sticks, even with the sides and bottom greased. So now I have more questions.

1. How long after the internal temp reaches 200° should I be removing it from the pan? I’m trying to make perfect sandwich bread and this is completely destroyed when the top comes out and the bottom stays in.

2. I’ve read that you should test the temp from the bottom. Um, how? If it’s in the pan, how the hell am I supposed to get the thermometer in?

3. Why is my non-stick pan sticking? Is there a certain type of pan that produces better bread?

2. That means the end of the thermometer should be in the bread at the bottom of the pan, but not resting on the pan itself. Don’t let the tip of the thermometer be in the center of the pan; stick it all the way down. That’s what “test the temp from the bottom” means.|

1 and 3 are related. It’s hard to say why it’s sticking; you might be trying to remove the bread before it’s cooled enough, or you might need new pans. Some cornmeal will help you out, or you can line the pan with parchment paper. Glass pans will give a darker crust but I have found that they tend to stick more.

[congodwarf]

@Sigmagirl

2. That means the end of the thermometer should be in the bread at the bottom of the pan, but not resting on the pan itself. Don’t let the tip of the thermometer be in the center of the pan; stick it all the way down. That’s what “test the temp from the bottom” means.|

1 and 3 are related. It’s hard to say why it’s sticking; you might be trying to remove the bread before it’s cooled enough, or you might need new pans. Some cornmeal will help you out, or you can line the pan with parchment paper. Glass pans will give a darker crust but I have found that they tend to stick more.

2. Oooooooohhhhhh. :smack: Thanks.

1&3. Hmm. I definitely don’t need a new pan. I don’t think I have cornmeal. I’ll give the oil/flour method a try for the next one. I do have a glass pan but I prefer lighter crust so for now I’ll stick with the metal one. I’ll also attempt to restrain myself from removing it from the pan before it’s cooled.

[Musicat]

@congodwarf

@Musicat

Pumpkin bread…take a white bread recipe (3c bread flour, 1TBL sugar, 1TSP salt, butter, water), add some pumpkin pulp (from a pie filling can), some brown sugar, cinnamon, nutmeg. Continue as before, but it might need a little more cooking time than white bread.

Sorry, I don’t cook by measuring. I add what seems right, and taste as I go.

Well that seems easy enough. I will give that a try. Thank you.

Good luck. I think the temptation is to add too much of the non-flour ingredients and that keeps the bread from rising. Just a little bit of flavoring goes a long way. If it doesn’t rise as fast or as much as you want, give it a bit more time to rise and remember to use less next time.

Just a wild idea – sour cream might work with the pumpkin. (Haven’t tried it, so you’re on your own!)

[Mangetout]

@congodwarf

1&3. Hmm. I definitely don’t need a new pan. I don’t think I have cornmeal. I’ll give the oil/flour method a try for the next one. I do have a glass pan but I prefer lighter crust so for now I’ll stick with the metal one. I’ll also attempt to restrain myself from removing it from the pan before it’s cooled.

Alternatively, you could just form the dough into a round ball and bake it on a cookie sheet (letting it double in size before baking). Obviously you’ll get a round loaf - not so convenient for slicing, but it will be nice.

[Mangetout]

@Musicat

Just a wild idea – sour cream might work with the pumpkin. (Haven’t tried it, so you’re on your own!)

I made a loaf once where I replaced all the water in the recipe with natural yoghurt - it made quite a sticky dough, but it was an interesting loaf - sort of cheesecakey flavour - good with jam.

[congodwarf]

Hmmm. That’s a good idea. Free-form bread. That would go well with the free-form meatloaf. If I can get the shapes fairly similar, it would be perfect for meatloaf sandwiches.