Here’s the deal, a colleague of mine and I got into a discussion about breaking the law in a private parking lot.
Specifically, there is this parking lot near where we work that is a most excellent shortcut to get home. There is a sign in the parking lot that says “No through traffic” I’m of the opinion that I can drive through the parking lot, whereas he believes that if he sees the police, he better pull into a parking spot, then pull back out again otherwise he could get a ticket.
Anyone know the real straight dope? This is in Alpharetta, GA, by the way.
Consider this. Most handicapped parking spaces are on private property. Do you think a police officer can issue a citation for illegally parking in a handicapped spot?
Even if local laws don’t specifically cover this, all the police have to do is ask the property owner if they want to sign a complaint.
Thanks for the link. I can’t believe I didn’t search first. I usually think of that.
I should have know that the answer is “It Depends”.
However the thread you linked to has all of 7 replies, and none of them offer any credibility unless you want to count the one where the sheriff’s volunteer says: "…and he said it wasn’t illegal. "
So, I’m still looking for the straight dope on this one.
IIRC, handicapped spots are a special case, in that they are mandated to be there by law. I don’t believe that traffic violations on private land (such as speeding) can be ticketed.
However, cutting through private land to avoid traffic controls is illegal in most places. That violation isn’t so much about being on the private land, but avoiding the traffic signals.
I don’t see how that’s a valid argument. I’m quite aware that public use private property doesn’t give you the right to do what you want… hence no “we allow murder here” lots are available. I’m guessing the “cutting across parking lot” law isn’t a Federal law, like I suppose the handicapped law probably is. It sounds to me like the answer is probably “it depends on if it has been made illegal where you live”.
I have an email in to my MIL, who’s a lawyer. I’ll post what she says.
In the UK, I believe the only way the police could get involved is if
a) you are causing criminal damage
b) you are harassing the owner of the land
c) you are suspected of being drunk at the wheel (even though it’s private land, the police can still do you if it’s a through route)
Trespass (which is the applicable law) is a civil issue, not criminal.
However, if the owner had a court injunction on you prohibiting you driving, the police could intervene.
Check the thread again. Someone has posted the code (but from Michigan, not Georgia) which specifically criminalizes such “shortcuts.” And it matters not whether the property owner has posted a warning against thru traffic.
Well of course it will depend on local statutes. The only federal laws, pertaining to vehicle operation, that I’m aware of, have to do w/ interstate commerce.
Private parking lots are usually zoned by the municipality as such, and therefore have to comply with all the municipal parking lot regulations which include things like speeding and handicapped parking spaces.
In New York State the law governing cutting through a parking lot as in the other thread is motor vehicle code 1225, “Avoiding a Traffic Control Device”, and it applies when someone uses the lot to avoid a red light, stop or yield sign, whatever. In the case asked about here it’s not clear whether a traffic control device is being avoided.
When I was ticketed for this back around 1985 or so I went to court and truthfully explained to the judge that I was not avoiding the red light, but using an alternate route to avoid a sewer construction project that had torn up the intersection for months. He was a resident of the same town, and had also been inconvenienced by the project, so threw the ticket out.
That’s my thought too. I just didn’t think “you have to park here” rule really existed. I wonder what the ticketed offense is for when driving across a parking lot and not parking?
It probably doesn’t matter, but as an FYI, there isn’t a traffic control device anywhere to be found. Imagine two parallel roads. There is a huge ice skating rink and subsequently a huge parking lot there too. The parking lot has an entrance from either side.
OK, the roads aren’t parallel, but here’s the deal.
Look at this map and draw a line straight North to Rock Mill Road. That’s where the other entrance is to the parking lot. So you can see how tasty it is to take that shortcut when you want to go East on Mansell Road.
If you look at the satellite image, it’s actually the building and parking lot just east side of the red marker. The two buildings on the west parking lot is a Home Depot Design, and a Sam’s Club.
If you use a parking lot to bypass any sign or signal of normal traffic control, then that is a possible ticket for circumventing a stoplight/stopsign. In most US states it is not allowed.
…but otherwise, it’s not illegal to cut through such private property, and the police cannot arrest you for “not parking”. In the US, police can only enforce signs placed by local, state or federal government entities on public roads. You can for example, drive across the (privately-owned) shopping-mall parking lot at 120 MPH if you want, assuming no personal or property damage is done. The worst that can happen is that the property owners file a complaint telling you to stay off their parking lot, and the next time you are caught you can get fined just for tresspassing, but you would not get a “speeding ticket” in the typical sense, because local/state/federal speed limits are not valid on private property.
~
I started looking for a signal avoidance statute or similar statute. Found this so far. Will be back later. But think on this: If (2) is the only applicable provision, the sign is only enforceable if it is frequently disobeyed.
I don’t know for sure if it’s the case in all jurisdictions, but in Canadian provinces most traffic laws are applicable only on the Queen’s highways…
… except, notably, for laws against drunk driving, which are technically not part of the various Highway Traffic Acts at all, but are a criminal offense.
The violation in question is called “shortcutting private property” and you can be issued a citation even though it is private property. Put yourself in the the gas station’s place (or strip mall, flower shop, etc). How would you feel if every body and their mother used drove on your property causing wear-and-tear without doing business?
There are some laws that don’t apply to private property; such as speeding. You can’t be given a speeding ticket, but you CAN get a reckless op ticket. You can’t get a ticket for going through the stop sign at the mall, but if you are found to be drunk, you can be charged with OVI (this is in Ohio, btw).
It also depends on the type of private property it is. If it is YOUR property you can do just about anything, except dirve drunk. But if it is on a “publicly accessible private property” you can be charged with driving under suspension among others.
I guess my point is this: the law is in place to protect the property owner, not you.
So far, 40-6-3 is the closest I have found. Neither the city nor the county ordinances have any provisions that seem to apply.
That leaves us with a question:
Does the phrase, “which although privately owned are customarily used by the public as through streets or connector streets,” modify “similar areas”? or does it modify “shopping centers or parking lots or similar areas.” If it is the former, then the sign is probably enforceable, if the latter, then things are more complicated.
I wasn’t able to find any cases online. I’d wager the cops will go with the former, and you can miss a couple hours of work trying to convince the judge that it is the latter.
In Washington state (where I’m a cop), the traffic codes only apply on roadways (with a few special exceptions, including disabled parking violations), not on private property.
Criminal laws, however, apply everywhere. In the situation described by the OP, I could cite you for Criminal Trespass 2 for cutting through the parking lot, because the sign basically limits who can be on the property. I could only imagine this happening if the property owner had specifically asked our agency to do so, and even then only if I couldn’t think of a single better thing to do.
In the case of my business parking lot, it’s “criminal trespass”. It doesn’t avoid any traffic control devices, it cuts across a block from a backstreet to an expressway. Cars cut through all the time, some of them doing 40 mph. We frequently have problems with customers backing out of their parking space into the path of a car flying through the parking lot. When this happened when a cop was in front of the store and there was a near accident, he stopped the motorist, and all he could do was issue a citation for trespassing. The guy had no business in the shopping center, he was cutting through.