Breaking: Student tasered multiple times at UCLA library

[Walter_Windchill]

@tagos

Yea - well the slurpy sound of people jerking off to excessive use of force never fails to sicken me.

You mean you can hear me doing that over the Internet? How embarassing. :rolleyes:

[tagos]

@Walter Windchill

You mean you can hear me doing that over the Internet? How embarassing. :rolleyes:

I’m afraid it’s coming across (so to speak) pretty loud and clear from some posters.

Their unquestioning attitude to authority, their overwhelming acceptance of the right to use ridiculous amounts of force over a completely trivial incident and the willingness to blame the victim does speak of something fundamentally screwed in their heads. And yes I do think it points to something pathological.

My mind boggles every time something like this comes up.

[Larry_Mudd]

Am I the only one who mentally completes the Bob Marley lyric when the cops are barking “Get up, stand up!” over and over again?

[Missy2U]

@tagos

Their unquestioning attitude to authority, their overwhelming acceptance of the right to use ridiculous amounts of force over a completely trivial incident and the willingness to blame the victim does speak of something fundamentally screwed in their heads. And yes I do think it points to something pathological.

Oh good lord, you have GOT to be kidding. Someone give me some jackboots - it’s getting mighty deep in here. :rolleyes:

[Beware_of_Doug]

@Missy2U

Someone give me some jackboots - it’s getting mighty deep in here.

You’ll like mine. They’re brown.

@BearNenno

You dont know me, guy. What kind of people am I??

SGT, US Army, according to your profile. Meaning that the uses of authority and force are your vocation, but that you may be too close to the issue to see the ethic of the other side clearly or at all.

Also, you are trained in deadly force, the kind that makes anything else seem like popguns in comparison. You might well wonder what these soft civilians are bellyaching about. A culture founded on guns does make the whole idea of civil rights guaranteed by law seem quaint.

<$.02>

[Skywatcher]

@mstay

Maybe I’m crazy, but if the taser has been implicated in that many deaths then maybe it’s not a good idea to use it willy-nilly when some spoiled brat throws a temper tantrum. Less than lethal indeed.

Or were they tasering old people with heart conditions?

Young-ish people with heart conditions brought on by drug abuse, AFAIK.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

@Bear_Nenno

Using the drive stun with a Taser is way down on the use of Force spectrum below pepper spray. It’s equivalent to twisting a person’s wrist a little bit to make him come with you. That’s it. It was used in this situation to prevent the situation from escalating. From preventing violence.

Aha, using violence to prevent violence.
Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.

@Bear_Nenno

Okay. So you’re a pussy too.

Yeah, you are a real pussy if you don’t like getting tasered.
Wow, you must really be a strong, burly example of masculinity.
Either that or you are a jackbooted thug bully yourself.
I personally think the latter from the things you have posted in this thread.

@Bear_Nenno

No. The use of the Taser in situations like this should be encouraged. If more cops were using it, less cops would need to throw punches or use combative tactics or injur suspects.

I disagree.
If I was a bad person and got tasered by some stupid fucking authoritarian egomaniac, you can rest assured that next time I would be the first to get the violence on.

@Bear_Nenno

You dont know me, guy. What kind of people am I??

Apparently you are someone who is quite okay with people using force to exert their power over someone.
I think you are probably a person who has a blind respect for members of the police and military.
I think you are also a person who has a blind dislike of people questioning authority, so that means you are somebody who has never learned anything from history.
You also seem to seriously dislike students. (Goddamn liberal hippy scum).

[Walter_Windchill]

Ah, there’s nothing like a high-minded debate among scholars. God bless this board.

[tagos]

@Missy2U

Oh good lord, you have GOT to be kidding. Someone give me some jackboots - it’s getting mighty deep in here. :rolleyes:

The Authoritarian Personality is on clear display here. Authoritarian Agggression? Check. Authoritarian Aggression? Check. Conventionalism? Check.

Substitution and Stereotypy, Power and Toughness, Destructiveness and Cynicism ? Check, check and check.

Fascistic personality types on display? Yes.

Theory of the Authoritarian Personality

Those persons who cling to fascist ideologies, according to the theory, distinguish themselves through their inappropriate, prejudice-laden view of social and political relationships.

From this background in their personal history arose the assumption that the emergence of certain phenomena such as anti-Semitism and ethnocentrism stands in close connection with this particular personality structure.

Because fascistic groupings get support essentially from the right-conservative camp (although that does not suggest that the right-conservative camp invariably lends these groupings such support) parts of the conservative outlook are likewise judged as an expression of this personality structure.

As an instrument to measure this outlook, the AS-scale (for “anti-Semitism”) the E-scale (for “Ethnocentrism”) and the PEC-Scale (for “political-economic conservatism”) are used.

The instrument for assessing the underlying authoritarian personality structure was the so-called F-Scale (“implicit antidemocratic tendencies and fascist potential”).

This scale is comprised of the following subscales:

* Conventionalism -- the tendency to accept and obey social conventions and the rules of authority figures; adherence to the traditional and accepted

* Authoritarian Submission -- submission to authorities and authority figures

* Authoritarian Aggression -- an aggressive attitude towards individuals or groups disliked by authorities; particularly those who threaten traditional values

* Anti-Intraception -- rejection of the subjective, imaginative and aesthetic

* Substitution and Stereotypy -- superstition, cliché, categorization and fatalistic determinism

* Power and Toughness -- identification with those in power, excessive emphasis on socially advocated ego qualities

* Destructiveness and Cynicism -- general hostility, putting others down

* Projectivity -- the tendency to believe in the existence of evil in the world and to project unconscious emotional impulses outward

* Sex -- exaggerated concerns with respect to sexual activity

The authors of the study expected a positive correlation between results on the F-scale and being marked by conservatism, ethnocentrism and anti-Semitism.

Robert Altemeyer found that three facets of this authoritarian personality were important: conventionalism, authoritarian aggression and authoritarian submission. He has refined the concept of the authoritarian personality into the Right-wing Authoritarian scale, though his conceptualization is in some ways more primitive than that of the Adorno group. The Adorno group did, for instance, try to keep the concepts of authoritarianism and conservatism separate (using different measuring instuments for the two) whereas Altemeyer considers the authoritarian personality as manifesting 3 traits, all of which are aspect of the unitary phenomoenon “authoritarian personality.”

[Revenant_Threshold]

@Lissa

Nope, it highlights my point. We do not have enough to conclude. The film does not show enough for any conclusions to rendered, especially with the first use of a tazer.

The subsequent uses, as I pointed out, raise questions that need to be investigated.

Yes, it highlights your point - by showing you’re guilty of the same mistake you’re saying everyone else is making. You said we cannot draw conclusions based on something we can’t see. You drew a conclusion based on something we can’t see. That you were certain enough of that suggests you’re not totally convinced of your point, or that you’re only applying it to others and not yourself. Unless you’d like to retract your statement?

@Cheesesteak

I think some of us just don’t see the taser as a brutality tool. It causes pain, like an arm lock, only with a lower risk of injuring the person. It can immobilize a person for a few seconds, so you don’t need to beat him over the head with a stick or wrestle him to the ground to put on handcuffs.

Look at the video again; he was tasered *after * he had been handcuffed.

And I don’t see the taser as a brutality tool. Brutality, to me, suggests some kind of lasting serious injury, neither of which a taser provides (presuming the suspect doesn’t have a heart condition). However, I think causing someone the amount of pain an armlock causes (and the extra shock that comes from being tasered) is not an acceptable tool in this situation.

The reality is all of the “non brutal” options put forth involve a significant risk of injury to either the student or the officers. Seems to me the anti-brutality folks don’t really care if the student or officers get seriously injured in the confrontation, as long as this evil tool of oppression doesn’t get used.

Dragging the guy out poses a significant risk of injury to the student and officers? Proof, please.

It’s not the tool; it’s the way it’s being used. As a means to incapacitate an attacker? Great! Excellent use of it. I applaud it. As a means of torturing someone into walking rather than forcing you to drag his non-struggling body? Not a good use. And, in this particular case, not an effective one, either.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

@tagos

The Authoritarian Personality is on clear display here. Authoritarian Agggression? Check. Authoritarian Aggression? Check. Conventionalism? Check.

Substitution and Stereotypy, Power and Toughness, Destructiveness and Cynicism ? Check, check and check.

Fascistic personality types on display? Yes.

Yes, but then again this Robert Altemeyer is clearly an examply of one of these treehugging, authority-hating hippies so will be summarily dismissed by certain people.
Humanity appears to be doomed to repeat its mistakes over and over and over again.

[Revenant_Threshold]

As a psych student, I think the Authoritarian Personality theory is pretty crappy, actually.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

Dutch cops don’t have tasers or anything. (although they are getting pepperspray but aren’t allowed to use it at will).
Still these cops have no problem getting people to vacate buildings.
We don’t see cops getting injured on a regular basis because of this.
If the person gets a few bruises along the way it is their own fault.
If you get bruised because you are struggling then hey, that’s you own fault.
But shocking somebody to make them comply just is not okay.
And it doesn’t work as is shown in this video : they had to carry him out in the end anyway.

[Loach]

@Revenant Threshold

Yes, it highlights your point - by showing you’re guilty of the same mistake you’re saying everyone else is making. You said we cannot draw conclusions based on something we can’t see. You drew a conclusion based on something we can’t see. That you were certain enough of that suggests you’re not totally convinced of your point, or that you’re only applying it to others and not yourself. Unless you’d like to retract your statement?
Look at the video again; he was tasered *after * he had been handcuffed.

And I don’t see the taser as a brutality tool. Brutality, to me, suggests some kind of lasting serious injury, neither of which a taser provides (presuming the suspect doesn’t have a heart condition). However, I think causing someone the amount of pain an armlock causes (and the extra shock that comes from being tasered) is not an acceptable tool in this situation.
Dragging the guy out poses a significant risk of injury to the student and officers? Proof, please.

It’s not the tool; it’s the way it’s being used. As a means to incapacitate an attacker? Great! Excellent use of it. I applaud it. As a means of torturing someone into walking rather than forcing you to drag his non-struggling body? Not a good use. And, in this particular case, not an effective one, either.

Where I work we don’t have tasers. It’s not allowed in New Jersey. I can tell you that everytime I have had to detain/remove a noncompliant subject I have been injured. Everytime. Usually it’s a briuse or a scratch. Once it was a broken arm. And that was a 130 pound woman. I would much rather have a taser in most cases. Is that the proof you are looking for? Probably not but it is my experience.

[John_Corrado]

@tagos

Yea - well the slurpy sound of people jerking off to excessive use of force never fails to sicken me.

fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap

Hey, come over here so I can coat your face with the cum of indifference.

That’s it, baby. Oh yeah.

fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap

[Revenant_Threshold]

@Loach

Where I work we don’t have tasers. It’s not allowed in New Jersey. I can tell you that everytime I have had to detain/remove a noncompliant subject I have been injured. Everytime. Usually it’s a briuse or a scratch. Once it was a broken arm. And that was a 130 pound woman. I would much rather have a taser in most cases. Is that the proof you are looking for? Probably not but it is my experience.

Well, the plural of anecdote and all that. But i’m certainly willing to listen to people’s experiences; when you say “noncompliant”, do you mean someone struggling or someone limp (or both)>

[Loach]

@Revenant Threshold

Well, the plural of anecdote and all that. But i’m certainly willing to listen to people’s experiences; when you say “noncompliant”, do you mean someone struggling or someone limp (or both)>

I mean someone who doesn’t place there hands behind their back when requested. Peaceful protests are not the norm. I’ve never been to a sit-in. When someone doesn’t comply in usually means a struggle when it becomes hands on. I’m speaking in generalities and not for this case since I have not been trained in the use of tasers and others who have already have been heard from.

[Loach]

For some reason I find it funny that the google ad I see is for democratssuck.com. Where the hell did that come from.

[Walter_Windchill]

I’m seeing defense lawyers in North Dakota and Nevada. How ould they would know the states where I have active warrants? Man those googlebots are smart!

[Revenant_Threshold]

@Loach

I mean someone who doesn’t place there hands behind their back when requested. Peaceful protests are not the norm. I’ve never been to a sit-in. When someone doesn’t comply in usually means a struggle when it becomes hands on. I’m speaking in generalities and not for this case since I have not been trained in the use of tasers and others who have already have been heard from.

The guy did have his hands cuffed behind his back; that much is clear from the video. And i’m sure a guy that’s cuffed can still be a menace, if he’s struggling; if it turns out later this guy was struggling and actively being threatening, then i’m happy to say using the taser was ok. But how often have you or the people you work with been injured by dragging a non-struggling guy with his hands cuffed behind his back?