I’m sorry - have I missed the declaration of a Jerk Contest?
Do you really think this is some sort of amusing or clever comeback of some description? That’s a rhetorical question by the way. I’ve already guessed the answer. I wouldn’t want you to strain too long and hard to come up with something equally erudite and cutting to your first pretty much matchless effort. It would be like asking the Bard to come up with King Lear: The Return or MacBeth 2.
Just go back to tasering disobedient puppies or whatever it is you people do when there aren’t any videos of people having the shit zapped out of them for the heinous crime of not leaving a library quickly enough or having a disrespectful attitude in the presence of a police officer.
If students without ID cards in their own libraries can’t be fucking handcuffed and tazered the terrorists have of course already won.
Cuffed? Quite a few times. Not most of the time but it has happened. Non-struggling? Nope. I would be very careful about using force once the cuffs are on but sometimes it is necessary. I have seen a cuffed 14 year old girl bite a chunk out of an officers arm. I was lucky enough to be on the other side. I probably wouldn’t have done it in this case but I don’t know. If you are in the situation it is different. If you are surrounded by an angry crowd you want to get the situation resolved as quick as possible before any of his friends decide to try and “help”. As was stated earlier using the taser in this manner (not shooting with the probes) seems to be pretty low on the use of force chart, very temporary pain no permanent injury. It just looks impressive on video.
I just had to comment on something that was on one of the first post. Something about the ACLU being quoted as saying tasers should be used only in deadly force situations. That is ridiculous. If it is a deadly force situation I am using .45 caliber hollow points. Several of them. Hopefully I’ll never have to.
I’ve also been trained in less lethal and nonlethal force. I’ve also been trained by a civilian police academy and my degrees are in Police Administration and Criminal Justice.
However, if you read the rest of my profile, you’ll see the DUI part. I’ve been on both sides of the fence. Been arrested about a half dozen times. Some of those because of over zealous bouncers at night clubs. I’ve watched cops act completely out of control and slam people to the ground for nothing. I watched a cop do that to my brother for a misunderstanding. A Taser would have been a safer, nonviolent resolution to that one I might add.
Anyway, I’m dont blindly follow anything. I dont hate any particular group of people. But I dont automatically associate every cry of abuse to the onset of a totalitarian regime and nazi invasion. I am not adverse to siding on the side of citizens who are true victims of police abuse or brutality. In fact, I couldn’t be more AGAINST over zealous officers. But, knowing the statistics, understanding departmental SOP and having first hand experience from both sides of the TASER, as well as alternative methods of nonlethal force, I can’t get too worked up over THIS PARTICULAR VIDEO.
In fact, you’d be hard pressed to find any video of someone being Tasered where I would freak out and yell and bitch and preach about Authoritarian Mindset and all that mess. And that would have to be someone just malisciously using the damn thing. But using it on any type of noncompliant suspect? I prefer to see officers using that than hitting or beating or wrestling suspects.
So with the totality of all this information, the situation as presented in the news article, and the detail (or lack of) from this video, I can’t get worked up over it. Just can’t. That doesn’t make me a thug or a government robot.
I’d characterise the crowd more as surprised than angry… it’s not like any of them were yelling anything other than “get his badge number” (a perfectly reasonable request) and it wasn’t as though they were poised to attack.
Thanks for your experiences, anyway. I’m aware there are times in which tasers are appropriate, and that using tasers isn’t a horribly brutal method; I just think they were excessive in* this * situation.
And that’s also perfectly reasonable; an unfortunate situation, no doubt, but reasonable. I don’t really want to get a reputation as some kind of cop-hating hippy.
I don’t see how this rubric is particularly evidence of anything. Most people believe in some rules and regulations of public behavior and enforcement of those rules by a police force. Most people also support limits on those rules, and limits on that police force. So most people could be accused of conventionalism, authoritarian aggression, and so forth, so the indicators of those attributes are not included in the wikipedia article.
Your strident name-calling is over-the-top and uncalled for, and muddies what could be a pretty illuminating discussion on police procedures.
The only question here is whether or not the police here used excessive force, which question largely depends on the pain, suffering, and risks involved with tasering. I was genuinely curious as to what police do to handle these situations, with some thoughtul information provided by others with more experience. I
I think that probably the police did use uncessary force, but also see them as human beings who made mistakes in a difficult situation. So I guess the only question now is, where do I pick up my brown shirt?
Getting hit on the head with a baton is deadly force. If a cop is hitting you on the head with baton, it’s only because he can’t reach his gun for some reason, otherwise he’d be shooting you.
Batons can cause permanent injury or death. It isn’t like the movies where you tap someone on the head and they fall unconscious and wake up an hour later with no side effects. A baton strike could EASILY cause permanent brain damage. A baton is much much more violent than a taser.
Anybody who says they’d rather get hit by a baton than a taser is too stupid to argue with.
That’s gotta be the stupidest statement in this thread.
Heh, college students are so cute. That eyewitness account makes a huge deal out of the fact that the officers never read him his Miranda rights. Exactly as I probably would have when I was in college. Nice try at pulling a big word out there, college guy, but the officers were not asking him any questions, and had no reason to read him Miranda.
I will repeat: I haven’t seen the video and I won’t attempt to address this particular situation.
What I am saying is that if the solution here is, “Carry the guy out by force,” then we’ve established
a) we don’t trust police to make any judgement calls of any kind
b) we need to have 4 cops per suspect in order to keep control
And those are both bad things, as a sustainable and enforceable policy. It leads to having large groups of police enforcers show up to any given situation, and that promotes mob mentality.
I read radiology reports for a living. I see reports on a weekly basis of cops being hurt because they were trying to physically subdue a suspect. I also see the occasional report from a suspect who is injured (which almost invariably read “allegedly assaulted by police”). I see no TASER injuries, which is to be expected; TASERs don’t break bones.
There was a local case of a guy about 10 years ago who was subdued physically by police, and died in the back of a squad car from the injuries he got resisting arrest. It didn’t make a huge national splash because the guy was poor and white. But hey, let’s go back to the old days of cops subduing people with brute force, because we all remember the way we used to do it was injury-free, right?
Yeah, that’s the important thing there. Silly college students, questioning about Miranda rights after having seen a guy tasered and dragged out! They’re just so *amusing * when they go on about the Patriot Act and oppression when cops are treating a guy with excessive force. Aww.
Because there is absolutely nothing in this incident that has anything to do with either Miranda or the PATRIOT Act. They are just showing their ignorance.
Why not? You seem interested enough in this situation. Even if you don’t think there’s anything to be learnt from it, it’s only a few minutes long.
No, we haven’t. If the cops acted entirely properly with regards to their guidelines, then we’ve established that the guidelines may be pretty disturbing. If the cops didn’t, then we’ve established that they may have made a poor judgement call this time.
Oh, and there were 3 cops who dragged him out. Not a huge amount of difference, but I point it out just to urge you to watch the video.
I believe you. You’ve shown that suspects can injure cops or themselves whilst actively resisting arrest. Anything along the lines of injuries caused to either when the suspect is already cuffed with his hands behind him, and limply non-cooperating?
Yes, let’s go back to the days of huge fucking strawman.
How was this guy being subdued? He was on the floor! Cuffed! Not moving! Subdue, to me anyway, has connotations of bringing someone into your power, or calming down an assault. Seeing as how he was already in the cops power, and seemingly not attacking them, I fail to see where the hell you’re getting any of this from.
Again, watch the video. I can’t help get the feeling that in your head there’s an imaginary video in which this guy is lashing out, attacking cops before they have to taser him into submission and cuff him; him then viciously continuing to thrash against the cop’s control whilst shouting obscenities. Watch the video, please.
Yes, I get that. They were stupid. The suspect was stupid. General stupidity was shown by the students.
There was also excessive force being used by cops. Now, it may be just me, but if I heard about a case involving a) mild stupidity by students and b) potentially excessive force from cops, I think i’d be more concerned about the latter rather than the former. Like I said, could just be me.
Jeez, a bit touchy, are we? I already gave my assessment of the situation earlier in the thread. That narrative hit my funny bone a little, mostly because it’s the same thing I likely would have thought 12 years ago, and I commented on it. Take a deep breath.
Oh, and cite that they were treating him with excessive force?
I’m sorry. I didn’t realise you’d already commented; it seemed to me (with my memory of a goldfish) that you’d only just heard about it and those were your immediate thoughts.
I should insert a “potentially” in there, or maybe a “as I see it”, you’re right. I’ve been pretty careful about doing that, though, so i’ll ask you to forgive a momentary lapse.
