I’m not sure what’s worse, a world full of crybabies or a world full of hardasses. Takes all kinds.
Better a bleeding heart than none at all.
A few folks in Oklahoma have gotten some fatal lessons in trespass.
All gates locked and fences in good order.
Properly posted.
Trespasser apprehended on site and informed in front of witnesses that the next time will result in lethal consequences.
Trespasser dies 6 feet inside the fence.
No record of him screaming, “I didn’t mean it.” or not.
There is right.
There is dead right.
There is dead wrong.
Make sure you know what you are getting into.
If not, I welcome Darwin intervention.
I’ve already broken down the video in far more detail than I think most people will even bother to read. Yes, I think more than enough time was given, he never said, “I’m getting up”, or “I can’t get up” that can be audibly heard on the video. In between each tazing you hear multiple request over and over and over again to “stand up” before the second tazing he’s shouting obscenities and isn’t make much indication verbally that he’s planning on standing up.
I think it is almost conclusive just from what we can see that he was not in fact trying to get up, based on what little you can see of the student in the videos and based on the back and forth verbally.
If the police wish to detain you under many circumstances they can do so. Just because you aren’t charged with a crime by a prosecuting authority afterwards doesn’t mean they did not have the right to detain you in the first place.
You can also be placed under arrest (and appropriately) and never be actually charged for a crime by a prosecutor.
I love how you guys blatantly ignore the opinions of professional police officers in this very thread. People who have told you multiple times that being tasered is actually better for both the suspect and the officer as there is a higher risk of lasting injury from forcefully dragging someone out of a building than there is using a TASER on them.
It is not a proven killer tool and to use such language without proof is incredibly dishonest. Furthermore I bet many more people have died as a result of physical scuffles with police than any who may have tied from a TASER.
Not at all. And even if the officers are cleared of any wrongdoing by their department I wouldn’t be surprised if UCLA or the UCLA Police lose or have to settle for a high dollar amount.
Our civil court system doesn’t inspire that much confidence in me, but it is better than anything else we’ve devised so far.
I guess this brings up a legitimate debate question.
What’s preferable, police using a method that is certain to cause pain but has an extremely small chance of causing any lasting injury or police using a method that has the possibility not to cause pain but has a higher chance of causing lasting injury to the both the suspect and the police?
I can see reasons for both sides of the fence, but personally I can imagine a lot of situations where I think the certain pain would be the better choice, and thus would favor the use of a TASER versus physical wrestling. I’ll repeat just in case anyone jumps on me about this particular incident that I don’t think we have near enough evidence to analyze this case very well; and I make no strong judgment on the appropriateness of the officers’ actions until we know their use of force policy and SOP and local laws.
Yep, eye witnesses are probably the worst source of evidence possible. Guy Pearce said something to the effect of, “An eye witness can change the color of a room, the appearance of a person, the time, the date, etc.” and that is why he had incredibly little faith in eye witness testimony (in the film Memento.) It’s something I’ve also heard a lot from professionals who study the investigation of crimes, as well.
People who are afraid of police tend to be the sort of people the police need to keep their eyes on, in my experience.
True, but nearly everyone’s a little afraid of the police. I understand you mean those who are really afraid of the police and would probably bolt, crap themselves (figuratively), or try to outrun them in a vehicle if they saw them. The line between wary of the police (e.g. not letting them in your house) and scared of the police (e.g. evading them) can be hard to judge.
I’ll agree with that. One should have a healthy and intelligent attitude towards the police. In my dealings with them I try to be polite and helpful, but I’ll never do anything that could possible incriminate me or help in getting me accused of some crime (for example I would never consent to a search of my home without a search warrant, I would never give an interview to the police if I was a suspect in a crime.)
I’ve never had any personal dealings with corrupt police officers, but we know they are out there. There’s also police officers who blatantly abuse their authority and engage in police brutality. I’ve never dealt with any of those either personally though, based on the opinion of someone who has never dealt with either type of bad-cop, I’d say if I identified one as being a bad cop I’d just nod and agree with them and do what they asked. It’s a lot better than getting in to a scuffle with the police, although there’s a limit to how far I would bend, I’m not going to confess to a crime I didn’t commit just because a cop threatens to beat me, or something.
I think you’ve misread the article. The article states that “at least 148 people in the United States and Canada have died after encounters with police who shocked them with Tasers.” It does NOT say that these people were “killed by Tasers”.
Do you see the difference? Just because someone dies after being shocked by a Taser doesn’t mean that they were killed by the Taser. Even the ACLU article doesn’t claim a direct cause-and-effect relationship. There is an implied connection, of course, but I’m aware of no evidence supporting this.
In pretty much every case I’ve read about a death after Taser application, the subject had significant amounts of drugs in their system and were quite out of control (something called “excited delirium”). These people might well have died after a fight, even without using a Taser. These types of deaths happen occasionally, and happened long before Tasers came into use.
Abso-fucking-lutely.
Bear_Nenno, Thank you so much for withstanding the storm of blubbering vaginas on this board, and trying calmly, yet fruitlessly, to use common sense and a basic understanding of the real world to make your points. You must have known what you were in for from post one, yet you weathered it. Kudos, fucking seriously.
I love this board, I really do. However, with members whose collective intelligence far exceeds nearly every board in existence, it’s a tragedy to find so few of you actually have any common sense.
This is exactly why I wonder if “4 cops manhandling a guy” is that much better a solution than “use of TASER.”
I mean, the very kind of people who get uptight about authority figures, who fear cops, will just see a 4-on-1 fight instead of a legitimate attempt to keep the peace. I fear there’s very few methods an officer has at his disposal to keep such people from becoming anxious and/or resistant. From what I hear, this kid probably wouldn’t have got up to leave if Dalai Lama had asked him to.
I just saw this on Olbermann last night. It was appalling. The dude was on his way out of the library when he was jumped by the brown shirts. According to Olbermann, the dude is going to sue for racial discrimination. He claims he was harrassed because he was Iranian. I hope he takes them to the cleaners.
So glad you could bring something relevant to the discussion. Even happier that it was intelligible.
Would you agree that choosing to detain him when he was already leaving was a poor decision, in this case?
Oh, now you think they were racist?
I find it extremely interesting and relevant that he is sueing for discrimination and not excessive use of force or brutality.
The two are not mutually exclusive. His case could be that he was discriminated against because he was treated excessively whilst a white (or non-Iranian) suspect would have been treated properly.
IF he was leaving, and they intended to detain him, it was a poor choose to do so right there. They should have just followed him out without touching him and then detained him outside. Afterall, the whole goal was to get him outside. We dont know for sure what he was doing when they got there, thgouh.
But either way, it wasn’t wrong or illegal or anything. They just made more work for themselves. Just because there is a better way to do something doesn’t mean that every other method is cause for public outrage.