That was, uh, directed to Loopydude.
OK. I was wondering if my inability to see these cops as a modern-day Gestapo unit meant I had to turn in my membership card or something. Most of my experiences with police leaves me inclined to hate the fuck out of them, but in this case I think, were I an administrator, I not only would have exonorated them, I would have seen to it the student suffered other serious consequences for flouting school security and then playing the race card when it came back and bit him.
Not really. I have the feeling he was probably some snotty college brat whining because he didn’t follow the rules-it sounds like at first he refused to show his idea, threw a hissyfit, then forced them to pretty much restrain him.
Although the cop threatening to tase the second student was out of line, in my view.
Is there any reason to believe that this student triggered the incident on purpose?
I thought he was a little quick to mention the Patriot Act. And his ethnicity.
I’m just asking, so feel free to over-react.
Regards,
Shodan
The point, as others have mentioned, is that the school library is there for the use of the students. If he can’t or won’t demonstrate that he’s a student, then it’s not “his” library.
I went to college back in the days when computers (well, computer terminals, actually) were in computer centers rather than libraries. Our school had a three-level priority system for the computer centers.
- A student working on a class assignment
- A student doing anything else
- A non-student
You could bump someone at a lower priority than you at any time. If everyone was at the same priority, then a time limit went into force. It was a perfectly fair way to allocate resources.
You mean went into the library hoping to start a scene? Ehhhh, that’s a little too far-fetched for me. I think he was probably a spoiled little asshole, but I don’t think he set it up.
I don’t think he set the whole thing up, but the contrived crap about the Patriot Act smacks of opportunism to me.
Personally I think this is a case of dumb kid meets dumb cop.
As someone who holds a lifetime alumni membership and library privileges that go with it, I’m not a student, but I occasionally go on campus to get books from the library, go to the bookstore, and maybe have some food ora cup of coffee while I am there, this concerns me. Most equipment in the library is labeled to the effect that students, faculty, and staff have priority over visitors, but the latter are not barred from using the equipment if it’s available. If I were asked to show my ID and nobody else was waiting for the computer, I’d probably think the officers was overstepping his authority and question it. If this means I might get tasered for not being able to produce a campus ID, just because a situation escalated too fast to control, that does worry me.
Well of course anything to keep the crybaby pussies down, I’m all for it.
Fucking tool.
My point was, if you want an educated medical opinion, you ask a medical professional. If you want the opinion of someone who knows about what is the justified use of force in a law enforcement situation, you talk to a lawyer who specializes in that area or a law enforcement officer. It has nothing to do with respect or disrespect for the uniform.
You don’t even need your ID just to be in the library. As I mentioned, the students, faculty, and staff do have priority over all others when it comes to using computers and other equipment, but others are not forbidden to use them when they are free. There are other places on campus, such as study lounges, where you do need to be a member of the campus just to be there, but that’s not true of the libraries.
BTW I tried to see the video and only got sound.
If we’re going to start making stupid, and sweeping generalizations about other societies I guess I’ll point to the big debate that has been going on for several years about national ID cards in the United States.
Oh wait, that was the UK, it’s never brought up here. But it’s interesting in the UK, where I guess ID doesn’t matter whatsoever, such a big debate has been ongoing and is known in the global press about national ID cards.
Or, to make another generalization, maybe the fact that in the United States students pay for a far greater share of their higher education means we have a more vested interest in not just letting every Tom, Dick, and Harry wander in to the library and act like he has a right to be there.
If I’m paying $10,000-$30,000 a year for an education and there’s a hefty library fee involved in that, you can damn well bet I want the police removing someone who doesn’t have any proof he has a right to use the library. It isn’t a public library, it’s a university library for students. Why should non-students have a right to be there?
That’s like saying your proper response to me coming in and eating food out of your refrigerator is for you to sit there and live and let live. I’m not hurting anyone, all I’m doing is trespassing.
In the olden days we also understood the correct definition of electrocute, you illiterate fuckwit.
But in this case it’s not a question of a closed facility. As is usual with public universities, the public is allowed access, but with privileges that are curtailed in conmparison with those who are enrolled there. Different classes of non-students have different kinds of privileges depending on whether they’re students at other institutions, visiting scholars, alumni library card holders, or whatever. I have a card in my wallet that grants me privileges at the UCLA libraries for the duration of my life. The university library, itself, granted me that card pursuant to my being a life member in the alumni association. If a COS or UCLA officer accosted me and told me I had to leave because I’m not a student I’d be dead pissed. Without intending to I might act or speak in a way that the officer thought to be threatening.
I can only imagine that if I were an actual student I’d be more pissed than ever, if that happened to me. AFAIK the libraries don’t post signs saying you need your ID, so if the student in this case was not intending to check out books he might well have decided to leave his ID at home. The same is true if the computer lab wasn’t going to be busy and he didn’t expect to challenged because bona-fide students were waiting to use the computers.
While the library may have public access during the day, after hours access is restricted. It is a closed facility.
I don’t know what axe tagos was trying to grind, but I thought perfectly legitimate statements could be made critiquing the response of the security detail without the broad brush. Hell, we don’t have CCTV on every corner in the US. And did I imagine the riots in Brixton and Middlesbrough in the 1980s and 1990s? By this measure, I guess we Yanks aren’t the only ones who occasionally have issues concerning people in uniform.
This is a reasonable expectation of a police force in our society.
I am sickened by those in this thread who defend what is clearly excessive force, and actions which greatly exacerbated the situation. The guy according to multiple witnesses was moving toward the door when the police grabbed him. The police provoked the situation by grabbing the student, and tasering him after he resisted being grabbed. Yes, the college student was being an asshat, but the obscene overreaction by the police has made it all much, much worse. Perhaps (I’m not sure) there is no “right to leave under one’s own power” after police have accosted you, but if the police had taken a few moments, moved back a few feet, and let the guy do so, chances are there’d have been no controversy, and the guy would have left without further incident.
People defending the taser: face it, there’s no general agreement that using a taser for “pain compliance” on a victim, who is clearly not being violent, is a reasonable use of force. Basically, the police tried to torture the victim into compliance, unsuccessfully. The man was tasered repeatedly, even while handcuffed, even while he was clearly disopriented and unable to stand up unaided regardless.
If the police had
- not grabbed him as he was moving toward the exit
- calmly escorted him out of the building (this can be accomplished without grabbing and pulling by the way)
rather than
- grab him
- taser him repeatedly after he reacted negatively to being grabbed
we would not be having this discussion. All it would have taken for a much, much more peaceable outcome would be for the police not to have behaved like thugs in the first place.
Being a police officer is a tough job, no doubt. People without the temperament to do that job well are encouraged not to apply. Those three thugs in the library are poster candidates for the wrong temperament. I want more police officers like Thalion.
Don’t worry-you didn’t miss anything. All you can really see is a huge crowd and may a little bit of the guy’s arms flailing about.
Not “jumping on you”, but I think it has been pretty well established that the student wasn’t acting violent in any way. Therefore I think we can say that there was no “taser” vs. “physical wrestling” dichotomy. If he had been violent, and there were any reason to believe the rent-a-cops would have had to wrestle him, I might be able to see a case for using the taser as the lesser of 2 evils, but in this particular case I cannot.
As for policies and SOP, an article in the L.A. Times noted that while the LAPD and LA Sheriff’s Dept. both have policies against using the Taser for pain compliance, UCLA does allow it. Perhaps that is a policy that needs to be changed.
Oh well, that’s different. If the YouTube link worked for me I would have recognized the location, but as it was I couldn’t see it.