I think that that could have been more of a hopeful response than anything based on decisions that had been made at the time. My Nimoy autobiographies are at home, but I seem to remember him saying that at the time having a meaningful death scene was part of what enticed him into doing the film in the first place.
Regarding Gandalf, I think that works because he is a god-like being. He’s on Middle Earth by mandate of Illuvitar, and so belongs in the story until its end. In that context, his return worked for me, particularly as his character is quite changed after he returns.
I tend to agree with the OP, however (and Star Trek III, while having some good moments, is a pretty lame movie IMHO because of the whole 'Spock back from the dead via the Genesis planet and rapid aging), which is why… [minor soapbox]
Dumbledore has to stay dead. If he comes back in any real way (other than, say, speaking from his portrait or something) it will completely ruin any drama that happened in the last book. It would be awful writing if he returned.
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Denial is a wonderful thing… To this day I remember holding my older sisters hands while she sobbed after that scene…
And in the entire history of Trek, to that point, no other major charector had been killed off and not been alive at the end of the episode. (McCoy in “Shore Leave”, Kirk Numerous times).
I felt the same way until I realized it was a very important aspect of Gunslinger. I still don’t like it but it at least makes sense.
Are you listening to the whole series on audio book? Because if you are, book 2 is read by King himself and he is the worst reader who ever read something to read!!!
I think it depends on how well the resurrection is integrated into the original storyline, and what the consequences are. If it feels organic–naturally developing from the previous events–then it can work well; but there also needs to be consequences, along with reasons why anyone in this fictional universe stays dead. On the other hand, if it seems that the creators simply changed their minds, or didn’t like what a previous creative team did; or if there’s no consequences to the resurrection, then it tends to suck.
Two well-done resurrections are the early-90s death & rebirth of Superman, and seasons 5 & 6 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Superman’s is probably the better one, (though perhaps too drawn out), as all the elements of his resurrection were introduced into the general storyline before his death. Also, when Dr. Occult explains the entire thing, he made it clear that this was such a freaky occurrence that Superman and Lois would be fools to think him immortal. Superman’s very human response to coming back–being overwhelmed with joy and, for quite some time, a little irresponsible, also worked for me.
Buffy’s resurrection seemed a bit more capricious than Superman’s; all the elements of her rebirth are introduced afterwards, and it’s only by fiat that it can never happen again. But Buffy’s year-long depression saves the storyline. Unlike Superman, Buffy actually made it to Heaven, so it’s completely understandable – inevitable, in fact – that she’d look at returning to Earth as a sentence to Hell.
Count me with the persons who think Spock should have stayed dead. Admittedly, his return is organic with the prior story, and there are (short-lived) consequences, but bringing him back undercuts the themes of Wrath of Khan. Morever, the death was done in such a way to render all subsequent Trek deaths suspect.
But I remember in later years, Tasha Y’ar was taken out like a redshirt extra before the opening credits. She had a fairly major role; I was astonished to see her killed so eh, casually isnt quite the word I want here… Anyway, it always made me look out for my favourite characters, because if this was a show where people got killed regardless of rank, then it upped the tension bigtime. If they had resuccitated Tasha at the end of the show, this would not have been the case.
Seemingly, Lost has this same approach (I dont watch lost) of killing a major character every now and then to up the suspense. If they all showed up alive at the end, like it was all some conspiracy, well, thats some bullshit right there.
I remember that. I also remember that they kinda-sorta undid that later: in a time-travel episode, the Enterprise-C came from the past in such a way to prevent Tasha’s death (but also to cause 20 years of war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire). Tasha got to die heroically to undo that.
The notion pissed me off. Though the episode in which Tasha died, “Skin of Evil,” was pretty mediocre, it did make a valid point: the deaths of the red shirts still matter. Tasha’s friends and fellow officers were no less devastated by her death because it was “pointless” than they would have been if she’d died successfully saving Troi in that episode. My favorite part of the episode–one of my favorite Trek moments–is when the senior staff is in the conference room, all furious and grieving over her murder, and Picard quietly brings them to order.
Plus the fact that he didn’t really die. The Fellowship thought he did, but his kicking the Balrog’s butt was kind of his final exam to becoming a White Wizard.
I personally don’t think Dumbledore is dead. I think the whole thing is a setup. He faked his death and will come back in book 7 to help Harry kick Valdemort’s butt.
Now, as far as somebody who died and kept coming back like toenail fungus: Star Trek: Next Generation and Tasha Yar.
Er, no. I admit the phrasing is ambiguous, but Gandalf’s physical body definitely dies; his willingness to make that sacrfice without knowing what the consequence would be was why Iluvatur brought him back for a brief time, until [his] task was finished. The chronology in the appendix, and several mentions in Professor Tolkien’s letters, makes it more clear that he did, in fact, die (as much as any ensouled being can die in Aman).
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Yar both did and did not return. That is, her resurrection was a time-travel mishap, and after the time anomaly was repaired, none of the crew retained any knowledge that she’d been back (except for Guinan, who didn’t know her in the first place). Picard became aware of the time travel when he met her daughter, but Sela, obviously, was not Tasha, just another character portrayed by the same actress. Moreover, I’m sure that if you asked Picard when Tasha Yar died, he’d say she gave her life trying to rescue Troi on Vagra II; he has no direct memory of her other death, and of course never saw her again anyway.
And the Yar we saw in the series finale was not a revenant either, as time travel (or hallucination) was involved there as well.
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So, Rurouni Kenshin. Somewhat atypical shonen (young boys, usually the market for stuff like Dragon Ball Z and Naruto) Japanese historical fiction that deals with a former government assassin. It’s atypical in that although Kenshin does get in his share of fights, a constant theme of the plot is that the victor of the battle isn’t necessarily right.
So Kenshin gets tangled in a plot of revenge by the little brother of a woman he killed (to say more would be spoiling the plot), and the ultimate revenge is revealed to be
Kenshin’s current romantic interest is skewered with a large sword.
I remember discussing this on a rather active mailing list at the time. There were rumors that the aritst had some way of working around this, and I remember arguing that doing so would ruin the emotional impact of the entire story-arc.
In the end, they were right. The artist felt that he had to give the story a happy ending, so
She wasn’t really dead, it was a very convincing fake.
I’ve pretty much forgiven the artist for this, but it still does piss me off every once in a while.
Enoch Root dies in the Cryptonomionand then appears later in the book with no explanation almost like the author forgot he was dead. After reading The Baroque Cycle I realize that it was wholly intentional. There are other resurrection in those books, and they make sense too. I have no problem with well done resurection plots.
