Brit - Anti Establishment. American - Pro Establishment

I have heard a stereotype comparison that Brits are generally Anti-establishment and Americans are pro-establishment. How true is this stereotype I wonder.

In britain it is perfectly acceptable to moan and complain about how crap our country/govornment is. Everyone does it. No-one thinks twice when they hear others do it. It is done for the sake of conversation. But I have observed that Americans almost invariably get offended/annoyed when the mistakes/irresponsibilities/problems of their country/govornment are discussed. Even though the discussion rarely if ever gets personal. This unexpected offence takes the Anti-establishment half of the argument (usually a Brit) by surprise and we think the other half (usually American) is just being arrogant.

Discuss.

I don’t know…I am American and you always hear Americans complaining about the govt. and taxes and stuff. And remember how much we made fun of both candidates around election time- that was fun. :slight_smile: And of course, stuff on TV like “That’s My Bush” or SNL illustrate an irreverent view of the presidency and of government in general. So, I think in the U.S., it’s all in good fun, really.

The real difference I saw during my six years in the UK was that most Brits moan about everything, from the government to food in restaurants, at least in private. Once challenged, though (say, during a general election, or by an angry waiter), most of that resistance disappears. Hence the fact that there has been only one change of government in the UK since 1979, and food in restaurants is for the most part still insufferable. I exaggerate, to be sure, but not by a lot I would wager.

I think a lot of the American defensiveness, at least while they’re in the UK, is a result of the “American abroad” mentality. I suppose if you travelled extensively in the States, lobley, you’d probably see close to the same level of anti-establishment thought, not on TV or in other media, but among the population as a whole.

Maybe this is getting off track, but if the Brits are so “Anti-Estab.,” how could they put up with supporting some figure heads like the kings, queens, princes, et al for so long?? It seems that Americans in the U.S. would not stand for that. Hmm. I guess we didn’t. :wink:

I don’t see much difference. People in both the UK and the US whine about the government. There’s an idealistic streak among Americans that makes them very pro-USA when the US is criticized by foreigners, to the extent that it’s embarrassing, with flags all over the place. And there’s a cynical streak among Brits that makes them doubt their government’s position much of the time, though they seem to pull together when things get serious - for example, when they send their military into action.

Nothing wrong with being skeptical about the government. Keeps them on their toes.

As a couple of other posters have mentioned, most Americans are not particularly offended when other Americans complain about the government. We do have a hard time taking it from outsiders. Up to a point, I think this is a fairly universal human trait – you probably wouldn’t like it much either if an American took it upon himself to tell you how your country should be run – but I agree that we tend to be oversensitive to criticism of the US as a nation. It’s not one of our more admirable national traits, but there are some legitimate reasons for it.

First of all, the US is a pretty sheltered environment; most people grow up with only limited exposure to other cultures and simply aren’t used to the way people from different countries talk to each other. Being an American in Europe is like being an only child visiting a pack of squabbling siblings; it takes a while to learn to distinguish playful teasing from genuine nastiness, and until the radar kicks in, you tend to overreact. During my first few weeks as an exchange student in Spain, I felt like I was under attack – EVERYBODY appeared to want to discuss gun control or the death penalty, and they seemed to be holding me personally accountable for policies I didn’t even agree with. (In fact, they were probably just curious about the death penalty, but in the US you DON’T start a casual conversation with a stranger that way.)

In other words, standards of politeness are different. Even among themselves, Americans prefer not to cross certain lines; for instance, most of us think it’s unfair to slam a politician who is dead, ill, or otherwise unable to respond. If the recent GD thread about Margaret Thatcher is any indication, I’d say the British are much less likely to keep the kid gloves on in such circumstances, which can be disconcerting for someone used to different rules.

Finally, I’d add that the media in every country tend to distort and oversimplify issues which are not close to home, and it’s always frustrating to discuss an issue with somebody who isn’t aware of most of the complexities and shades of grey. To get back to the gun control example, while I don’t particularly approve of the current gun laws in the US, there are a great many cultural and historical reasons why it’s hard to change them. Many Europeans critique this particular policy without fully understanding the background, and they also tend to have a wildly exaggerated notion of the amount of gun violence in the US.

Hope this doesn’t come across as a slam, but it’s not fair to say Americans are “just being arrogant”; often, we think people from other countries are being arrogant when they critique a culture they haven’t lived in.

I didn’t actually state explicitly that you are arrogant. I tried to make the point that your taking-offence may be being seen as arrogance while not actually being arrogance.