As for people with titles doing menial jobs, I seem to remember something from somewhere about (the later princess) Diana having a cleaning job in her younger days after a falling out with her family. Might be bull, though, as I’m not able to verify that by any means. Nor can I actually remember if she had a title before her marriage.
Her father was a viscount and he later became Earl of Spencer in 1975 when his father died, at that time she was given the courtesy title of The Lady Diana Spencer.
Forgot to add, she was known as the Honorable Diana Spencer from birth due to her father being a viscount.
Forgot to add, she was known as the Honorable Diana Spencer from birth due to her father being a viscount. It does not appear that she had any title of her own though.
And I’d like to point out that titles work in different ways in different countries, so an answer about Spain is not an answer about England. Just think of the way Russia used to work–there were tons of princes and princesses running around, and basically none of them were actually the sons and daughters of kings and queens.
The Hon. Diana Spencer provides a useful segue into another topic, which is that children of peers may have courtesy titles (i.e. titles that do not actually reflect a position they hold in their own right). This often happens when one person holds several titles: if the Earl of Squiffy also holds the title of Viscount Nopp, there may be a family tradition that the father goes by Earl of Squiffy and his eldest son is called Viscount Nopp out of courtesy. even though it’s his father who’s truly Viscount Nopp. There’s also rules about which sons and daughters are called The Hon. out of courtesy, all of which I forget.
As a very general rule, the eldest son of a Duke will be called Marquess, other sons Lord and daughters Lady.
for a Marquess, eldest son Earl, other sons Lord, daughters Lady
Earl, Eldest son Viscount, other sons the honorable, daughters Lady
Viscount or Baron, all chidren The Honorable.
I meant to do all this as one post, but had to go to a brief meeting.
The courtesy title given an eldest son is usually a secondary title held by the father.
To use the Spencer family for an example…Diana’s grandfather was the 7th Earl of Spencer and also a Viscount, having inherited both titles from his father.
Her father used the title Viscount, which allowed his children to use the title The Honorable. When the 7th earl died Diana’s father became the 8th Earl of Spencer, his son Charles became a viscount and Diana and her sisters became Lady (name). Charles became the 9th Earl of Spencer upon his Fathers death and the titles now pass through his children.
If Diana had not married into the royal family or another peerage, her children would have no title as she held no titles in her own right. Other situations come up where secondary titles are passed to another male relative, but it gets more complicated from there.
Obviously this is a very simple outline and there are many other factors that can be involved.
My friend’s dad got a knighthood a few years ago. He was geeked about it, but I don’t know how much he used the titles “Sir John and Lady Blank.”
I know an Earl and so does pretty much everyone else who lives/has lived near his family’s old ancestral lands. Read his linked bio. One of the good guys, and nobody has ever called him anything other than the diminutive of his first name.
They can if they wish. I remember reading somewhere that the 3rd Baron Calverley was at one stage a PC on the beat in Bradford.
Peers certainly don’t always advertise their titles. A good example is the current Conservative politician, who calls himself Michael Ancram. He’s actually Michael Kerr, the 13th Marquess of Lothian, but doesn’t use the title. Instead he uses a surname based on one his subsidiary titles, that of Earl of Ancram.
My grandfather was knighted during WWII. I used to think this was cool until I was old enough to figure out that he didn’t wear platemail and ride around on a horse. My grandmother used her title but apart from being a big shiny fish in a small pond there wasn’t much point to it.
After my grandfather died leaving massive debts, Granny went to work, first in a bank and then as a political secretary, (where I’m sure the title came in a bit more handy.) These were British titles in a Commonwealth country, ftr.
That’s such a minor, minor title though that I’m really not sure it answers the OP’s question very well. But in her case, certainly a titled person was working in perfectly ordinary boring jobs with perfectly ordinary boring co-workers.
I suspect that’s partly political common sense, but also a new bit of parliamentary etiquette emerging for hereditary peers sitting in the Commons.
I worked with an English guy who is Lord somebody somebody. He works as a computer consultant and is very, very good. He didn’t go by his Lordly name but just a normal name like Fred Smith. I knew that he was well off because someone in Finance Branch was telling me what a pain in the ass he was because he would only put in an invoice every once in a while. He once didn’t get paid for 10 months. One night we were having a drink and he was showing me photos of his girlfriend (an Aussie I think he has since married) and I noticed that they were staying at the Burj-El-Arab and we got to talking and he revealed his secret. He said that he only had his title on his passport for the advantages he got from it, particularly in Hong Kong and the US.
He is a perfectly ordinary guy in his 30s, except for how smart he is and how much he drinks.
Actor Timothy Bentinck is the 12th Earl of Portland, but you would have a hard job to know it, without the internet.
The current Earl Nelson (distant connection of Admiral Lord Nelson) is a police sergeant.
Author John Julius Norwich is the 2nd Viscount Norwich but doesn’t use the title.
Since the Peerage Act 1963 it is possible, on inheriting a title, to disclaim it for life whereupon it goes into abeyance until your death. Several people have done this, whether from ideological conviction, or political advantage (a peer qualified to sit in the Lords cannot stand for election to the Commons and so is unable to pursue a political career)
I’m not kidding: I thought this said “what’s the scoop on people with titties?” But maybe that’s because I’m from the U.S., where we have lots of titties, but few titles.
According to the Court Circular, which always uses the “proper” styles, he’s the Earl of Ancram, MP.
Crap, I should have done a search before I posted. Michael Kerr used his father subsidary title, Earl of Ancram. He started going my Michael Anram when he started his law career because he felt jurors would get confused it the judge addressed him as “M’Lord”. His proper style, since his father died, is the Marquess of Lothian, PC, QC, MP
I’d suggest that this story, like a lot of ‘family lore’ is not accurate.
A father, even an Earl, can’t just "have the marriage annulled’. It takes Church authorities to do that, and it’s had to do even nowadays. It was much harder back then. Especially if there was current or pending issue (children) from the marriage.
Heck, look at what it took for King Henry VIII to have his marriage annulled!
And what reason would there have been for the 2nd Earl to have married in the first place? Younger sons of the nobility having ‘dalliances’ with local girls was not uncommon, and didn’t commonly result in marriages – just monetary presents to the girl or her father usually settled the matter.
i can’t remember how but you can ‘become’ a lord by doing something… you can’t attend parliament, but you’re a lord.
the boys at my brother’s school all grouped together and bought a piece of land as a present for a teacher of something, just like a square foot - but he is now lord meenin because of it.