British Dopers: My daughter wants to go to Oxford/Cambridge Law school

Factual Questions
1

I’m Canadian so I’m a little confused. No, not BECAUSE I’m Canadian, well maybe a little but because the education system is so different.

Ok let me start over.

My daughter wants to go Oxford or Cambridge law school (yes, we understand the complications that adds for practicing law in Canada due to articling; however, she’s hoping to stay there after).

It seems like law school at these schools is directly out of high school? Is that right?

If her grades were good, but not stellar in high school, can she do a BA degree in Canada and then apply to Oxford/Cambridge to show here academic potential?

Thanks!

2

So admission to a UK university for UK residents is based on an admissions system called UCAS.

For UK residents, this will be based on the results of either A-levels (taken at a college when students are generally in the age range from 16-18) or an accepted equivalent qualification like the International Baccalaureate.

For international students, there is a University of Cambridge Local Examinations Syndicate, which develops and administers A-Level equivalent exams around the world.

For a Russell Group University, any prospective student would likely need three A grade A-Levels (some courses may drop to 2 As and a B) or alternative equivalent grades to be considered.

Of course, having a suitable Batchelors degree may also be sufficient to read Law at a UK university such as Cambridge or Oxford - however, I would strongly recommend approaching target Universities to ensure that the proposed local degree matches the likely entrance requirements to such a course. You will need to approach Universities directly.

3

Not a British doper but your daughter might want to spend some time watching Eve Cornwell on YouTube. She’s a law student in the U.K. and that might give her some idea of what it’s like.

4

Not a British doper but your daughter might want to spend some time watching Eve Cornwell on YouTube. She’s a law student in the U.K. and that might give her some idea of what it’s like.

5

You/she really need to speak to someone who knows what they’re talking about. Particualrly someone who knows about Oxbridge admissions and the routes to qualify as a lawyer in the UK. I only have some proximate knowledge from friends/family, so I wouldn’t want to go in to detail, but there are various things she does need to be aware of.

I have a friend who recently started their pupillage (final stage in becoming a fully qualified barrister). What they did is after their bachelor’s (law) degree at another university did masters degree in law at Oxford before doing their professional dipolma (these dipolmas are usually studied at specilised schools rather than universities). This is much less time conusming and cheaper than doing two bachelors degrees, and probably less demanding in terms of school grades, if someone feels they absolutely must have a law degree from Oxbridge.

6

And just as an additional thought - you might also like to look at the Open University for suitable UK qualifications that may allow entrance to post-graduate courses at a UK university that can be completed while living in Canada.

7

A good starting point is the universities’ own web sites. Here’s some relevant Oxford links:
BA Jurisprudence

International qualifications

At Oxford, at least, it’s possible to do the BA in Jurisprudence as a second BA. It is possible to then do the degree in two years, but entrance requirements are extremely stringent, and from what I remember from friends it’s extremely hard and not really recommended.

Note also that there’s an admissions test (LNAT) and interviews.

8

The Unis of Sussex and Southampton both offer Law courses that are tailored to the needs of Canadian students.

9

This is what the admissions department at Oxford requires from Canadian students:

I imagine Cambridge is similar, but you can check that yourself.

They also say this:

10

If they accepted 3,250 students from 20,000 applications, that’s an acceptance rate of about 16%. That’s less competitive than many of the top US schools.

11

Thanks for the feedback and various links. It is greatly appreciated. This was a very preliminary investigation so this is very helpful. My daughter lived in the UK for a couple of years, and she loved it there and would like to return. She also wants to be a lawyer, so we’re trying to merge these things together.

12

Might be worth looking at this from the other end, so to speak. To become a practising lawyer in the UK, you would do an advanced professional training course on top of either a Bachelor’s degree in Law, or one in another subject followed by a conversion course

https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/law-sector/how-to-become-a-lawyer

See also the general information and advice from the British Council (and note there are indeed more universities than just Oxford and Cambridge)

https://study-uk.britishcouncil.org/find/subject-areas/law

13

Note that tuition fees for foreign students in the UK can be quite high. I don’t know if Commonwealth nations count as foreign.

14

Why does she want to study at Oxford or Cambridge specifically? As others have indicated, nearly all degree courses at either of those two (and law would certainly be among them) are aimed at the academically super-elite. Terms there are very short (as little as 24 weeks a year of structured study), and while that initially sounds great (lots of holidays!), in practice it means the workload during those times is intense.

Because of this elitism, and the way the British school system is structured, they can also be quite elitist socially. Both have made efforts in recent decades to consciously combat this, but the fact remains that the majority of students there were privately educated and therefore tend to be almost entirely from middle- to upper-class backgrounds. Don’t get me wrong, in my experience they are nearly all perfectly pleasant people, so I’m not saying this is a reason not to go, just something to be aware of.

Bottom line is, I would say that unless your daughter is extremely driven to be one of the best English lawyers in the field, Oxbridge may not be the best destination. If her priority is to qualify in English law so she can live and practise in England, there are plenty of other options that are less competitive and more socially inclusive.

Full disclosure: 15+ years ago I applied to Oxford, with top grades predicted in all my A-level subjects. I thought I acquitted myself reasonably well in the interviews and exams Oxford subjected us to, but I was rejected. I have absolutely no regrets - with hindsight, the academic pressures of Oxford wouldn’t have been right for me, I barely coped at the uni I ended up at (though I had a fantastic time). Good luck!

15

Ok, I, Pakistani born and bred did this. A decade and a half ago
Do not do this. At least undergrad. I understand why she wanted to do it. Speaking from experience, bad idea.
And I was from a system which was designed to get 18 year olds into a Professional program. She is not. The basic educational qualification in the UK and other parts of the world is taken at 16 not 18 like in N America. American students typically struggle in undergrad in the UK. No reason why Canadian students should be different.

The best options for her would be:

  1. Do her undergrad. In Canada. Apply for a one year Graduate Diploma Course in Law in England. The GDL is a conversion course for those with non law degrees. Then apply to one of the Inns of Court for the Bar Course. 1year. Then return to Canada for an LLM. A friend of mine did that.

  2. Apply for undergraduate degree in England in a “non law” subject. Then GDL and as above. She will struggle here though since she will be behind most students.

  3. Do the undergrad and JD in North America. Apply for an LLM in an English university. Like Oxbridge or LSE.
    This is the best option for her what most N Americans law students who study in England do.

16

That also raises other non-academic factors. What sort of environment would she prefer/feel comfortable in: big city centre, commuting to teaching and study? all-in-one campus? proximity to small town or big city? small collegiate community or big specialist faculty?

I agree with AK84, that the way we structure professional education may not mesh well with your system, and it might well be better to think of taking a later (shorter and therefore cheaper!) postgraduate or conversion course on top of the local initial degree.

17

If she wants to be a qualified English lawyer than London is almost a necessity and it costs an arm and a leg and another appendage to live there.
It’s one of my favourite cities on the planet but being a young students living there is hell.

18

They certainly do.

19

It is less competitive. Still very competitive, though.

In general, if you want to go to a globally elite university, your best strategy is to be British. Of the QS Top 100 Universities, 29 are located in the US and 18 in the UK. Given the population disparity between the two countries, this means that UK students are much better furnished with Top 100 universities than US students are.

Obviously, this is very crude. You need to adjust these figures to reflect the number of places at each institution, and you also have to bear in mind that the QS Top 100 ranking isn’t necessarily the only possible metric of elite universities. Still, the general picture is correct; the UK punches above its weight in terms of providing places at elite universities, and this results in less competition for such places, relative to the US.

20

Depends actually. My Bar Course fees for foreign students were 15000 pounds for foreign students. 11,000 pounds for commonwealth and 7000 pounds for domestic students. EU counted as Domestic only if they had been resident a year. Irish were considered

For lots of prizes, positions and other benefits commonwealth counted as domestic.
Actually unless specified commonwealth was presumed included in domestic.

Someone once showed me an old poster (80’s era)
defining domestic as 'British, Commonwealth and SAIP".
I am sure you can guess what SAIP stood for.