I was in London recently staying at a friend’s flat and noticed a couple of odd electrical things which piqued my curiosity and I’m hoping someone can explain:
Why are there no electrical receptacles in British bathrooms? My friend explained about the danger of electricity and water (like I was a idiot) and I explained that we’ve had GFCI receptacles in N. America for maybe 20(?) years with no problem that I’ve ever heard of. My first thought was that maybe GFCI doesn’t exist for 220V, but I googled and it does. It’s not like this is new untested cutting edge technology, any idea what gives?
Why are no wall switches allowed inside a bathroom? Bathroom lights be switched on from outside the bathroom or have an old fashioned pull string. Presumably again due to concerns about people being electrocuted, but I’ve never heard of anyone being electrocuted by flipping a bathroom switch in N. America. Again, what gives?
Why do wall receptacles have their own on/off switch built directly into the receptacle? My friend said that it allows you to turn off receptacles for things like TV’s that “slowly bleed” electricity when in standby mode. I’ve heard of this, but when I asked if she ever went behind bookcase/wall unit to switch the TV off, she said only once. When she did, she lost all her presets and the TV took about 5 minutes to rescan the channels, (plus it was a pain to get in behind the bookcase). It seems to me this adds significant extra cost for the receptacles and maybe extra costs for wiring, all for questionable benefits at most.
I’m hoping someone can explain what’s the straight dope? Is Britain way behind and out of touch when it comes to electrical codes or are they advanced super-safety conscious visionaries? All the Brits I’ve met seem pretty smart, so I must be missing something here.
Thanks
GMan
These things are relative; are the British hypersensitive about safety when compared to the Americans, or are the Americans slapdash and devil-may-care when compared to the British? There’s no objective basis for saying that one standard represents a norm and that deviations from that norm by the other require explanation.
I lack the technical knowledge to say whether the British supply standard - 240v, 50 Hz - presents a greater danger of injurious/fatal electrocution that the US standard - 110v, 60 Hz. If so, that might explain the differing attitudes to safety standards and margins. Perhaps some more knowledgeable doper can elucidate.
It would also be interesting to see comparative statistics for deaths by electrocution in the home as between the US and the UK. Googling throws up this thread from 2004, where post #16 suggests that there may be some payoff for the higher UK standards/some price paid for the lower US standards in terms of real-world outcomes.
My house in Canada, built about 10 years ago, has all the bathroom light switches on the outside. They also had to add an outlet on the far end of my kitchen counter, because the code had changed recently before that; the purpose was to avoid power plugs across the sink area.
Yes, 240V is a lot more hazardous than 110V. I have heard stories of electricians in North America who will grab a live wire and then grab a passing workman - apparently some electricians think this is funny. Do they do this with 240V in Europe?
For what it’s worth, in Australia (also 240v) you can have sockets in the bathroom but there are rules about distance from water sources. And we also generally have off switches next to sockets, occasionally useful in the past but nowadays all electronics are pretty good about having very low power sleep modes. That didn’t use to be the case back in the 80s / 90s.
In the US wouldn’t rules for sockets in bathrooms vary according to the building codes in each state? (or maybe even in each local area?)
Most jurisdictions follow some version of the National Electric Code. There are some local differences here and there, but the basics are pretty-well standardized across the US and Canada.
Off switches are especially useful for things that might go live the moment you’ve plugged them in because you don’t realise you’ve accidentally pressed the start button - eg electric carving knives, blenders, hot plates.
These things are the way they are not really because of a reaction to problems, but a rather, a proactive investment of effort to design for safety - driven by the British Standards Institution The British 3 Pin plug is a classic example of this - a post-war government-led project set about designing safety standards to prevent problems happening (which is not the same as solving them after they are problems).
According to this, the critical factor is current, not voltage. 10 milliamps is painful and causes contractions so bad you can’t let go of the wire. 100 milliamps and up will probably kill you, regardless of what the voltage is.
However, as was beaten in to me at school, I=V/R. Now R will vary according to what you might be wearing, where on the body you get the shock, how damp your skin is, and I would imagine physiological factors such as body fat. But generally, higher V is going to mean higher I. So broadly speaking, 240V is going to be a considerably riskier proposition than 110V.
Looking at stats for the UK, there were 29 deaths in England and Wales last year from effects of electric current, so approx 0.05 per 100,000 pop. (Table 6 in the second set of tables on that link). In the US, c. 400 deaths, or 0.12 per 100K pop. So despite (or perhaps because of?) having a higher-risk voltage, Brits electrocute themselves less.
So I’m going with Brits = super-safety conscious visionaries. Enjoy that bathtime TV while you can, you thrill-seeking maniacs.
Yes, you can have outlets and switches in a bathroom, but they have to be outside a ‘zone’ around the bath (3 metres). Most British bathrooms (by which I mean rooms with a bath or shower in) are smaller than the zone.
The wall switch thing probably dates back to when a, wall switches were metal, and b, lighting circuits were not earthed. The 3 metre rule applies to them too. Personally, I prefer the cord pull.
We think that having to pull the plug out to switch something off is silly. You can buy unswitched sockets, but they are rarely used because the regulations:
The point is that if your dishwasher starts smoking, you can just flip a switch to isolate it.
Everything is earthed these days and the main board has miniature circuit breakers on each circuit. Circuits are just that - a complete loop from main board, to socket to socket etc and back to the board. There are normally separate circuits for power and for lights on each floor, so a two story house will have a minimum of four. The only connections to have their own circuit breaker are the high power (more than 13 amp) ones like a cooker outlet.
All cables are two core and earth (except for three way switch circuits) and the two live wires are colour coded so that the switch will always break the same leg.
The off switch at the outlet ain’t just a British thing, either. It is very widely applied throughout Asia as well.
It conserves electricity. Here in the west wastage wasn’t initially ever our issue. As costs rise, I think you’ll see changes. It’s already happening here. Our electrical bills are filled with fun ‘did you know’ conservation facts, these days. And always featured, is how much it’s adding up, to have a bunch of appliances plugged in but not running. They recommend unplugging them when not in use to save on your energy bills. Clearly, outlets you could shut off would be much more workable than going around unplugging and then replugging in the appliances when you want to use them!
Any appliance made in the last 10 years will have a sleep mode which draws a tiny tiny amount. There’s little point unplugging any modern flat screen tv or powered speakers / amp system.
However anything with an external power supply (eg a wall wart) you can easily check. Feel it when the device it powers has been switched off for at least an hour (or sleep mode, but still plugged in at the wall). It it’s warm then sure it’s drawing enough current to possibly be worth switching off at the wall. Otherwise it’s fine.
It really is that. Coming out of the war, Britain did a whole load of state-mandated utopia-building - some of it was well-meaning, but fell very far short of the dreams - for example, tower blocks were envisioned as a brilliant solution to slums - everyone was going to live in harmony in bright towers of concrete, while their children played safely in the green spaces between. It was the first brave step towards the futurist dream of arcologies.
The reality was sadly a little different. Can’t win 'em all. At least we got the best electrical plugs in the world.
Not so sure you can compare household electrocution deaths so easily. In Canada (at least in Toronto) my understanding is that GFCI circuits are only mandatory in bathrooms if you do a renovation or new installation, but there is no requirement to retrofit. My house and my parents house both had non-GFCI receptacles for 40+ years until we did renos. I think to have an accurate comparison you would need to make sure your comparing GFCI equipped homes vs Britain. Or more specifically how many people die due to faulty GFCI receptacles?
Still seems the jury is out on whether the switches on receptacles makes sense. I see the point from a (theoretical) conservation view but from a practical point of view, aside from a couple items in the home it doesn’t seems to be of any value. How much electricity does my toaster or hair dryer consume when not running?
As far as safety goes, this strikes me as patently ridiculous. If you were really concerned about safety a far better alternative would be to have the receptacle switched by a wall switch located away from the potential hazard. The Brits can’t seriously expect someone to put themselves within inches of an emergency situation to power off their smoking dishwasher. Even still, if you’ve pulled it away from the wall to get to the receptacle switch, it seems just as easy to pull the plug. Also regarding the risk of your carving knife turning on when plugged in, the assumption is that one leaves the switches “off” unless in use. I know for my friend this is absolutely not the case. Her assumption has always been the switches are there for energy conservation, I don’t think it’s ever even crossed her mind to keep them off when not in use.
Lastly, regarding the dual (or quad) electrical panels for the lights and the plugs - I actually did notice that too. When I got back I asked a Canadian electrician if he knew why and he was absolutely baffled what practical advantages this conveyed. He LOVED the idea though, he said it would dramatically increase the time and cost to wire a house. Can Bob++ or anyone clearly explain the practical safety benefit of this muti-panel set-up versus our N. American safety set-up?
Saving power was not a criterion in the design. It happens to be an accidental feature of switched outlets, but the switched-outlet design is a safety feature.
For many small appliances, you’re already there. You are operating a hairdryer, food mixer, drill, whatever, and it malfunctions - you’re already near the switch that you would use to isolate it (and in most cases, the switch is a little way away from the device, so safer than trying to switch off the device via the device’s power switch)
The plugs are designed not to be easily pulled out (in particular, not by yanking the flex), Dishwashers are a red herring here - the standard was designed with portable appliances in mind.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Safety features are often like that. I guess the design could have included an interlock so the plug can only be inserted or removed when the socket is turned offf.
Do you mean things like this and this? they’re an aesthetic choice - there’s nothing to stop anyone installing 4 single light switches next to each other, but given that you may have to chisel out a square hole in bricks to set in the pattress box, would you rather do it once or four times?
Another oddity about England is the faucets in bathrooms. A cousin of mine lived in the London area for about 10 years. She said every bathroom in the places she lived had 2 faucets for the bathroom sinks, one for cold, one for hot. This aggravated her, she couldn’t turn on the faucets and have warm water come from one faucet.
There are rules (codes) about taps (faucets). They were designed to stop the potentially contaminated hot water from being back flushed into the cold mains water. These days it is a matter of preference. I assume that the rules were changed.
I have had a mixer tap on my kitchen sink for 30 odd years. Last year I replaced it with one that has ceramic valves. On the old tap, the spout was actually divided, so that the hot and cold water came down different channels and only mixed at the final outlet. The new one has a single tube.
In the bathroom, the sink has separate taps and the bath has a mixer; purely aesthetic.