It just seems to me that the Europlug solves most of the same problems as the UK plug without all the sacrifices of the US plug or the gargantuan size, expense, and complexity of the UK plug. The UK plug situation strikes me as the equivalent of everyone driving tanks to work. Yeah it may technically be safer, but there’s a lot of other issues that come with it.
UK plugs only seem big and complex to foreigners. And although they undoubtedly cost a couple of pence more to manufacture, cost is a non-issue.
For your analogy to be completely fair. The alternative is that everyone drives a Reliant Robin - even if the destination is occasionally a battlefield.
What issues?
People who are obsessed rarely recognise their obsession, so I don’t think your request is possible, even if it were true. Are you sure you don’t have an unhealthy obsession with (what you perceive to be) pointless regulation?
For something to be an ‘unhealthy degree’ though, I would expect to see harm being done. I don’t see that happening.
I like the fact that the government wants to regulate things that could harm me without my consent, and can’t reliably be left to the conscience of amoral companies.
I recognise that life involves risk, but I don’t believe other people should be able to be reckless with risks that affect me.
I disagree. It’s not an obsession with health and safety, it’s recognition that humans left alone make stupid, unsafe choices. Companies will value profit ahead of the safety of their staff and customers, and people have a tendency to impost their stupidity in the form of risk to unconsenting parties.
But again, so what? It’s no less convenient, and it’s an easy way to provide safe switching in a situation where people may have wet hands. It happens to be cheaper to wire than a wall switch, because it’s a metre or so closer to the ceiling light fitting (although I don’t imagine that was an intentional benefit).
It’s better than a wall switch. There - I said it. Demonstrate how I am wrong.
It was not clear that your objection was to the annual frequency of MOTs, vs the tests themselves.
Either way - it takes less than a year for most of the items on the test to go from safe to unsafe, and the poor pass rate demonstrates (I think) that safety can’t just be left to the diligence and conscience of the car owner.
If we reduced the frequency of MOT tests, there would be a greater proportion of unsafe cars on the road. My point still stands.
Nowhere in your linked pamphlett does it say you can’t use a ladder if there’s no sticker on it, it just says to check the sticker for load advice. What a manufacturer can’t do is sell a ladder in the UK without such advice, so maybe that’s what you’re thinking of.
Your South African conduit supplier has probably run into compliance issues, if his kit isn’t CE marked he won’t be able to sell it here. But CE marking is a European directive (it stands for Conformité Européene), not a British one. But if his kit complies (and if he complies with SA code, he must be able to show that) then he can CE mark it, you don’t have to pay anyone to mark stuff, just show that it complies.
My guess is that somebody saw a product sold in other countries, and thought they could also makes some sales in the UK.
As it happens, I’ve longed wondered WTF roof tile cleaning and painting and reconditionong services were all about, and only recently came to the realization that American shingle roofs need to be renewed more frequently than American houses. My theory is, of course, that someone saw the business model in the USA, and thought it would work in Aus, even though Australian ceramic tile roofs outlast the rafters they are placed on, even without cleaning and painting.
…unless you’re in China, in which case, you just slap the CE mark* on your dangerous product and you’re good.
*Well, not actually the CE mark, just something that looks damn near the same
It seems overbearing to some Australians too. And first-generation migrants from countries where government regulation is generally ignored, ignore Australian government regulation too. But having grown up in a country where only a licenced tradesman can do any electrical work at all, most Australians have no knowledge or experience with electrical work. It’s (un-)learned helplessness.
They use 110V power tools on construction sites in the UK? Why is that?
(Is it because traditional UK construction did not use any power tools at all?)
And in AUS it would be illegal to sell or (buy for use in a workplace) an unlabled ladder. I don’t think “illegal” is the word for what would happen if you were caught using an unlabled ladder in a workplace, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you were locked out of a construction site.
Considering most ladders everywhere are barely safe, even if secured, which rarely happens, and are feebly made, from slender materials, to fairly poor designs in this day and age, and one sees idiots balancing on the top two rungs to reach over, which happens all the time, the least bit of courtesy from manufacturers in allowing maximum weight limits is to be posted is severely appreciated.
Tools used on construction sites use dual phase supply (i.e. no neutral - 2 x 55v out-of-phase live conductors), giving a peak of 55v to earth potential, which I understand is considered safer, even if the available current is higher.
I believe there may be some power transmission considerations too - cable runs are often a lot longer.
Seriously? They’ve been covered already. In the analogy, driving tanks to work would be hugely wasteful of resources, slow, damaging to the streets, and dangerous to everyone around them who’s not in a tank. For the UK plugs, they’re also wasteful of resources due to their incredible bulk, they’re wasteful of space (whether wall space or plug strip space), they’re heavy, and they’re impractical for the plethora of smaller portable low-power devices people use, which are only increasing in number.
As someone who worked for years for a large UK construction firm that was bought and is now owned by a huge US construction firm, take it from me that the American obsession with health & safety vastly overwhelms ours.
I’m sitting in my office right now and I can see company-branded posters on almost every wall advising me to hold onto the hand rail when I go down the stairs, to check my car over before I drive home tonight, not to walk along staring at my phone etc, etc… All issued from HQ in Colorado.
That said, I do not think an obsession with health & safety is a bad thing.
I’m not going to try to defend the US system of branch circuit wiring, receptacles and plugs (and I sure do hate the way that plugs won’t stay plugged in), but there is at least some method to the madness.
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Don’t underestimate the difference between the operating voltages. 120 volt circuits are far less likely to arc. I’ve seen a cat’s whisker arc across 240 volt terminals, but this doesn’t happen at 120 volts. (Yes, I tried it.)
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US branch circuit wiring uses a minimum of 600 volt insulation on the conductors, providing a 400% safety margin. I can’t say for certain what insulation is required for UK wiring, but I suspect that it does not provide a similar safety margin. (Perhaps someone can enlighten me?)
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Typical US residential receptacle and lighting circuits are protected by 15A overcurrent devices at the supply panel and the receptacles are each capable of providing the full 15A of current individually. The strategy for placing receptacles is to provide more receptacles with less distance between them in order to minimize the length of cord between the receptacle and the light or appliance. (I’m sitting in my den right now and I can see ten separate duplex receptacles, for a total of 20 “plugs.”) I have not seen a similar density of receptacles in UK structures, even new ones.
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Supplementary overcurrent protection is very common, usually 5A or 7A.
With that said, I have to admit that I would like to see a US plug design that is much sturdier and that will STAY THE HELL PLUGGED-IN!!!
The insulation resistance test is an electrical test which uses a certain type and level of voltage (500V d.c. for low voltage installations i.e.: 230V) to measure insulation resistance in Ohm`s.
The measured resistance indicates the condition of the insulation between two conductive parts. An infinite resistance would be the perfect result, but no insulator is perfect, so the higher the reading the better.
The table below shows the required test voltage and the minimum required resistance in accordance with BS 7671.
Nominal Circuit Voltage Test Voltage Minimum Resistance
Between 0 V and 50 V a.c. 250 V d.c. 0.5 Mohm
Between 50 v and 500 V a.c. 500 V d.c. 1Mohm
Between 500 V and 1000 V a.c. 1000 V d.c. 1 Mohm
There are hardly ever enough sockets in a British house. There ia a lively trade in socket extensions to compensate, and often long cable runs as well. Not good. When I had a rewire about five years ago, the electrician was amazed that I wanted six double sockets in the kitchen. I wish I had a couple more.
Not sure what you mean, but most British plugs have a fuse inside, as well as the MCB on the consumer unit. This is in part, why extensions are OK, because they have their own 13 amp fuse to prevent a local overload. I look down under my computer and see two eight socket extensions plugged into the double socket behind.
I think that just demonstrates the limited usefulness for your analogy. Sorry.
‘Incredible bulk’? Hyperbole much?
The UK plug measures about 47mm by 36mm. The Euro plug (your recommendation) measures 37mm by 37mm, and typically deeper from front to back. Meaningless difference in size.
A typical 4 gang UK power strip measures about 400mm by 150mm. I can’t find dimensions for an equivalent 4 gang Euro plug strip, but they’re a little bit smaller. When is this ever a real problem?
Which would matter if one was too heavy to lift and the other was not, but that’s not the case. It doesn’t matter.
None of the above objections matter a damn. And certainly they don’t matter to the extent of difference between a car and tank. The slightly larger size of UK 3 pin plugs is not a danger or risk to anyone. The absence of safety features on other standards is.
Standardising on something suitable and safe for low power devices is not an acceptable compromise. Adopting a secondary standard (USB) for lower power devices seems like a fine solution to this - and so either plug-in multi-socket USB adaptors, or wall USB sockets are a fine idea.
Teuton
those CE markings alone is a good enough reason for Brexit 
The other source, which I’ve got no link to is LU ( London Underground =" the Tube") H/S instruction clearly stating that the must be legible and indelible sticker on a ladder.
This is a a part of two yearly H/S test for every employee on the LU.
I’m talking about periodic inspection sticker (in addition (!) to the manufacturer label)
Mangetout
Well, one more addition to my wishful thinking list
Let’s increase it then…every six month, every month, daily …the more the safer !
Let’s use them in ALL rooms then
That reminds me of this
and btw wet hands could happen anywhere …
jjakucyk
and more than once…
**
Dave.B**
what a relieve
It looks like this thread doesn’t belong to GQ anymore
so as a sign of reconciliation
enjoy this
Annual is fine, really. Of course higher frequency could increase safety - and there are classes of vehicles that are subjected to a much higher frequency of checks - emergency vehicles for example.
But your tyres are unlikely to go from legal to completely bald in a day; your brake shoes aren’t going to wear to nothing in a day, your vehicle’s bodywork won’t turn from metal to rust in a day. They might in a year.
Again, it’s about balancing of risks. Wet hands can happen anywhere occasionally, granted, but in a bathroom, wet hands happen several orders of magnitude more frequently (ideally, every time you go in there).
I don’t know if you perhaps imagined that my position was one of arguing for the elimination of all risks at any cost. It’s not. I know that’s impossible, and would be unbearably hard work even if it was possible. Risk management is a balancing act- I feel like the cost/benefit balance is about right. Of course, I would - I grew up with it.
Yes, I saw the same thing when in the UK and Ireland. In the US, “cube taps” were a big problem and one of the main reasons we now have very strict requirements for providing receptacles every X feet along a wall. Still, my house is over 40 years old and the receptacles I’m seeing are what was required even at that time in new construction.
Supplementary overcurrent protection is similar, but it is usually located in the appliance or luminaire, not in the plug itself. Therefore, it does not protect the power cord. OTOH, I have several electrical items, including Christmas tree lights, that DO have fuses in the plugs.
The US system is much less robust than the UK system, but it is sacrificing the robustness based on the lower operating voltage and the presumed availability of receptacles. Works just fine, though we still seem capable of burning ourselves up much too often.
I liked this from the link above: A sentiment with which I heartily agree,
Here’s a side-by-side comparison of a UK and Euro plug. For anyone else playing along and not familiar with these, the UK plug is the incredibly bulky thing on the right. It’s so safe, it’s a danger to everyone.