British English "what?" vs. "pardon?"

What?! I don’t think I’ve ever said ‘pardon’ without very deliberate, and probably sarcastic, intent. If it’s a situation where ‘what’ would seem rude, I’d probably say ‘sorry?’, or ‘could you say that again’, etc.

And when on the receiving end of ‘pardon’, I find it has a condescending nature. Maybe that’s because it’s most often from people who can’t spell my name, even though I spell it out for them without being asked.

Goh willa mwan?

I say, I don’t hear an offer like that every day. Or is that just Ayrshire-speak? :stuck_out_tongue:

Can somebody clue in us Yanks, or does “Goh willa mwan” perplex even English people from outside Ayrshire?

Please tell me you’re not whooshed by that one?!
(While I’m posting: I disputed whether most Brits would consider ‘what’ rude compared to ‘pardon’. Depends how you measure it. I suppose if you asked people “is it rude to say ‘what’ instead of ‘pardon’”, you’ll get a high positive. However, do these people actually notice the numerous ‘whats’ they encounter every day?)

What?

Huh?

Wtf?

Uuugh?

Moving this to IMHO.

While there is possibly a “correct” answer which would be proper in General Questions, the responses so far lead me to believe that this is best sorted out in IMHO. That forum can still contain factual information, so it isn’t like I’m fluffling this off.

samclem GQ moderator

Prince William’s ex-girl-friend’s mother was an air hostess. (To simplify, Kate Middleton is Prince William’s ex-girl-friend.)

Although to normal people this is a fair job, upper class twits used to tease Kate about her mother by saying “anything from the trolley?” or such like.

There are still some class distinctions in England, but it’s not usually a big thing. However the rich and ‘well-connected’ upper class have their own ways to discriminate. Being a royal is the best; having a title next best and of course being rich (did I mnetion that?!) always matters. Having gone to certain schools (Eton, Harrow) is also important.

Here’s an example of upper-class connections from a political party:

Embarrassing Cameron photo withdrawn from public use …

Newsnight has commissioned a painting of the infamous Bullingdon Club photograph of David Cameron, Boris Johnson and their other Oxford contemporaries. The photo of the members of the Bullingdon Club - which Newsnight describes as “the elitist Oxford University dining club whose public school members have become notorious over the years for vandalising restaurants and trashing students’ rooms” - had embarrassed the Tory leader and there was speculation that Labour or, more likely, surrogates for Labour would use the photo for an anti-Cameron YouTube campaign. That’s now going to be illegal after Gillman and Soame, the Oxford photographers who own the copyright of the photo, announced that no further permissions would be granted for publication. The photographers insist that they were not pressurised into making the decision but took the decision on commercial grounds.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/torydiary/2007/03/embarassing_cam.html

David Cameron is the leader of the Conservative Party. (Young, smooth reformer; plays down his upper class roots).
Boris Johnston is an opposition Minister (has been sacked + restored, I believe). Journalist, likeable, twit.

Picked up from my air traffic controller father, I used (and still do, once in a while), “Say again.” What class is that?

Have you not yet learned the rules? Personal insults are forbidden outside the Pit.

This is your fourth official warning in three weeks. Your posting privilege is under discussion.

Had you Cryptoderk’s record, you’d be getting a warning too.

So, the “bounder” guy Elaine was going with on that episode of “Seinfeld” that corrected her when she used “what,” and condescendingly told her that it was proper to use “pardon,” was he correct? I am confused. Not that I should be getting my protocol lessons from Seinfeld…

Regarding that list, “lavatory” (U) vs. “toilet” (Non-U) seems to contradict the the usual pattern, with the longer, seemingly more euphemistic expression being used by the uppers. “Looking glass” and “spectacles” seem simply archaic; even allowing for the status enhancing ability of archaisms, I can’t believe those expressions were everyday language even when the list was compiled.

“Ill”/“Sick” just seems like a British/American thing. I would say “sick” for both the boat and in bed. “Ill” I only use as an adverb meaning “badly”. OTOH I do remember the teachers in public elementary school always saying “ill” when telling the class that someone was out sick and would not be showing up that day. Somebody must have felt that “ill” was a more “proper” word to use.

I get the impression that the number of seemingly innocuous things you could say/do in front of the Queen that offend her is fairly long, although you’d have to be pretty thick not to know that chewing gum when with members of the royal family is going to look a bit shabby.

“come again?”

I think this is a cultural thing of exactly the kind highlighted in this thread, any Brit would see this as harmless banter and talk like this normally.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

This link has a list of some ‘class differences’

And this link contains John Betjeman’s killingly funny poem
http://www.editrixoffice.com/language_stuffy.htm

How To Get On In Society

Phone for the fish knives, Norman
As cook is a little unnerved;
You kiddies have crumpled the serviettes
And I must have things daintily served.

Are the requisites all in the toilet?
The frills round the cutlets can wait
Till the girl has replenished the cruets
And switched on the logs in the grate.

It’s ever so close in the lounge dear,
But the vestibule’s comfy for tea
And Howard is riding on horseback
So do come and take some with me

Now here is a fork for your pastries
And do use the couch for your feet;
I know that I wanted to ask you-
Is trifle sufficient for sweet?

Milk and then just as it comes dear?
I’m afraid the preserve’s full of stones;
Beg pardon, I’m soiling the doileys
With afternoon tea-cakes and scones.

The key thing is that it is not people being ‘proles’, but that some people, especially women, tend to be pretentious - and that opens them to mockery.

A classic example is the sitcom ‘Keeping up appearances’ featuring Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced Bouquet) - the actress Patricia Routledge also played the part of a detective in another series, and contrasting the two characters is extremely interesting.

In Mrs Middleton’s case, some of the press have tried to depict her as ‘lower middle class’, it’s probably just inventive journalists. Comically those journalists are probably a lot more likely to be pretentious self re-inventors than their victim.

Brit here.

Another vote for “what?” is rude, and “pardon?” is polite.

I use “pardon?” or “sorry?”