“Don Juan” is also pronounced as “jew-one” in Byron’s poem of the same name. It’s even rhymed with the phrase “true one.”
And don’t forget about “Quixote.” The British pronunciation is something like “QWIK-zit.” This anglicized version only survives in American pronunciations in the adjective “quixotic” (and even then, it’s sometimes rendered into a strangely Spanish pronunciation–I’ve heard “kee-HOE-tek”).
I think the only answer is convention. It’s quite traditional to adapt a foreign word or name to suit “native” pronunciations. For instance, how many English speakers say “Firenze” instead of “Florence,” or “München” instead of “Munich”? I’ve heard “Michelangelo” pronounced as though it were “Michael Angelo” (as, indeed, it was usually rendered in eighteenth-century English). And few people would criticize anyone for pronouncing the “s” in “Paris.”
Now, there’s something to be said for preserving the original sound of certain words and names; I’ll admit I usually pronounce “Michelangelo” the Italian way. But to insist on pronouncing a foreign word with its original pronunciation when there is a longstanding convention for an anglicized alternative… well, this can come across as pretentious.
On the flip side, anglicizing a foreign word for which the convention is to retain the original pronunciation makes you look like a doofus. So there’s a fine line you have to walk, between unbearable snobbery and hopeless boorishness.
And it’s not always easy to know when you should cross that line one way or the other.
The only solution: consult your dictionary often, and frequently cross-reference it with other dictionaries (OED will usually distinguish between British and American variants, but not always).
Hmm, the long versus short “a” sound. In the UK, and being a Brit I have some experience of this is largely down to where you are from in the country. Very broadly (not wishing to paint any geographic regions too specifically here) people from the north will pronounce the “a” in path, grass, bath etc as the short version and people from the south will use the longer version. I guess it depends on how snobby you wish to be. I have heard friends who are what could politely be termed “upper middle class” pronounce the long “a” in the most unlikely situations.
I usually use the long a myself, being a southerner and the version you’ll hear from the BBC is usally also the long “a”.
As to the original Op, I try to pronounce names and sounds as I would expect them to be pronounced, no more, no less. While I know Paris lacks the S sound at the end as already stated I would feel foolish saying it in the French manner. In actual fact most people would I guess say “so where’s that then” if I did. Granted I have an advantage in French, I have a half French GF so that helps lol.
The real point here is how did we mangle our own words so much, any guesses on the pronounciation of “Slough” or “Berwick Upon Tweed”, answers on a postcard please.
Oh, and to the Americans reading this, how the hell do you explain the difference between “Kansas” and “Arkansas”. I’ve heard that one trip up the odd Brit newsreader let me tell you;)
people from the north will pronounce the “a” in path, grass, bath etc as the short version and people from the south will use the longer version. I guess it depends on how snobby you wish to be.
Although ‘long a’ is only (arguably) snobby in the context of overall RP speech. Rural southern English and Estuary use it too.
Sorry, I’ve NEVER heard anyone say that.
Had several American tourists ask me the way to “Kelly’s Book” though.
Yes, they were looking for the Book of Kells.
No, they obviously didn’t bother to read their guide books.
I don’t. Why do Americans say Note-ah Dame? It seems like a pointed refusal to pronounce a foreign word (both of 'em).
**
What about it? It is a perfectly valid pronunciation according to the dictionary. And what about Jag-wah? Actually, if you are using a capital J, I would imagine you are talking about the car manufacturer. In that case, Jag-ew-ar is presumably correct as that is how they pronounce their own name.
I don’t buy this, at least not for misprounciations today. Given how very popular american TV shows are overseas, it hardly seems possible that people in the UK can escape hearing the “correct” ways of saying the words. After all, many (most?) people in the US who say “Banger” for Bangor (“Bain-gore”) know that it’s said differently for Maine than other Bangors. Surely the Brits know that they’re using a different pronunciation for the various words in this thread as well.
Since they still say them in a different manner, at least part of the explaination has to be because they like how they say it, “wrong” or not. Tradition, after all, is as good a reason as any.
Is this a troll? So if a British person hears a word pronounced differently on an American TV show, that medium of cultural definitiveness, you expect them to think “Oh my golly gosh, I’ve been pronouncing that word incorrectly all these years. Maybe I should change?” They are far more likely to think that the Americans are either wrong or just different.
Or they may not even notice. I’ve lived in the US for 7 years without noticing that taco and pasta (to get back to the OP) are apparently pronounced differently here.
You will not learn correct Spanish or Italian pronuncuation by watching Ally McBeal. And I again dispute the claim that Americans pronounce such words better than Britons.
Besides, according to my dictionary both pasta and taco have been adopted into the English language, so we can pronounce them how we bloody well like. When speaking Italian, yes one should attempt to pronounce pasta as Italians do (and it doesn’t sound like “pahstah” to me, more like “puhsta”). But when speaking English it just sounds pretentious.
But that’s my point (and by the way, putting “wrong” is quotes throughout was my cue that I think the assertion that the US pronuncations are the correct ones is dubious), even being aware of the “correct” prouncation isn’t enough to change the way something is traditionally said in a region. After all, knowing that Drawer isn’t meant to be pronounced “Draw” isn’t enough to get me to attempt the correct way of saying it, which is too awkward anyway.
One point worth taking into consideration is that the word Pasta is not simply an Italian word. While it may have originated from the Italian, it is now a part of the English language, is included in the dictionary, and is pronounced in a various number of ways by native English speakers, depending on their dialect. If it’s not technically a foreign word, then how can a native speaker of English be pronouncing it ‘wrongly?’ If we all pronounced every single English word that was borrowed from another language at one time or another (i.e. most of them) in the way that speakers of that language spoke them, it would sound very peculiar indeed.
It’s another matter altogether to dispute the pronunciation of a word like “fõfékmunkahenger” (which means “master brake cylinder” in Hungarian). This really is a foreign word, and therefore the only current measure of its pronunciation is the way a Hungarian native speaker would say it.
I agree. I’m American, and my “ah” sound is much more closed than the Spanish or Italian sound. My “o” is also a diphthong, not a pure vowel, as in Spanish and Italian. My pasta sounds like “postuh” and taco sounds like “tocou”.
When all is said and done, we all understand each other, and we’re not causing offence, so what’s the big deal?
Diversity is a wonderful thing.
(The town 6 miles from where I live is Bangor (that’s a big clueto my location if you’re norn irish). That’s Bahn-Ger, not Banger, not Bain-Gore. And they might knee-cap you if you get it wrong. )
Indeed. It is utter tosh. I remember reading something that referred to it out loud in school in rural Warwickshire when I was 15. I had never seen the word and pronouced it very badly. The whole class erupted and the teacher explained how it should be pronounced.
Maybe it’s fallen out of fashion then. But, in the OED, the pronunciation is still given as 'kwkset (that “e” should be upside down, but I can’t get that character to show up that way here). They don’t even give the Spanish pronunciation as an alternative.
So it’s still the officially sanctioned pronunciation in British English, even if it’s not said that way much anymore.
For the record, I’ve always said “kee-HOE-tay” and would feel silly saying it “QUIK-zit.” In America, the name has been totally de-anglicized (re-hispanicized?) so that the Spanish pronunciation comes first in all the American dictionaries.
