Brits: What's a zombie knife?

[Leo_Bloom]

I think this is a milestone and worth noting:
Hardware firm is fined £10,000 after becoming first UK business to be prosecuted for illegally selling a knife to a teenager following Trading Standards sting
Under Section 141A of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 it is an offence for anyone to sell a knife, knife blade, razor blade, an axe or any other article with a blade or sharp point to someone under the age of 18.

Those found guilty of the offence can be convicted to imprisonment for six months, or an unlimited fine.

Source: Underagesales.co.uk and The Offensive Weapons Bill 2017-19

[Melbourne]

@Mangetout

In my opinion, once people start treating a knife as a symbol, it’s way too late to do anything useful - and I think that’s at least part of the driving ethic for the UK knife law - to try to discourage any increase of these things becoming symbols in the first place.

I’m just throwing this in here, because I don’t know the situation in the UK, but in Aus you pretty much aren’t allowed to carry a knife unless you have a reasonable explanation, or never expect to be stopped by the police :). If you have a knife that “clearly isn’t suitable for a real knife fight” and is"clearly intended for decorative purposes", then, absent laws that make “decorative knives” illegal, the police might have trouble prosecuting you.

[DPRK]

@Melbourne

I’m just throwing this in here, because I don’t know the situation in the UK, but in Aus you pretty much aren’t allowed to carry a knife unless you have a reasonable explanation, or never expect to be stopped by the police :). If you have a knife that “clearly isn’t suitable for a real knife fight” and is"clearly intended for decorative purposes", then, absent laws that make “decorative knives” illegal, the police might have trouble prosecuting you.

It’s the same in the UK: you aren’t allowed to carry a knife in public without a good reason. It’s just that the authorities have deemed “zombie knives” banned, therefore there is ipso facto no “good reason” to carry one, therefore the police would have absolutely no trouble fining you. I believe it’s also illegal to order one online or buy one in a shop.

[Darren_Garrison]

@Melbourne

I’m just throwing this in here, because I don’t know the situation in the UK, but in Aus you pretty much aren’t allowed to carry a knife unless you have a reasonable explanation, or never expect to be stopped by the police :).

Thanks for ruining Crocodile Dundee, Australia!

[CalMeacham]

Wow!

A Zombie thread about a Zombie Knife!

[kambuckta]

@Darren_Garrison

Meanwhile The Onion, realizing that they have been defeated, quietly shut down.

#win

[bob_2]

@DrDeth

If you do carry a axe or other tool, NEVER admit that you consider it a weapon. If he had had- “Oh that’s a break out tool in case I get trapped in the car” i doubt if he’d be arrested.

I used to have a policeman friend. They would sometimes do random stops in the early hours of the morning and many of the cars they stopped would be taxis (not black cabs - more like Uber). A quick look inside would frequently turn up a length of scaffold pole or a heavy screwdriver and they would ask why it was there:

A reply along the lines of; “Oh! That’s where it got to; I’ve been looking for it,” would get them some advice about keeping it in the boot (trunk).

A reply along the lines of; “I keep that handy in case I get a stroppy passenger,” might earn them a short chat with a magistrate and a fine for carrying an offensive weapon.

It’s all a matter of perception.

[StarvingButStrong]

Dear ghu. At what age do males hit puberty in your country? Are they all supposed to wear beards until they’re old enough to buy a razor?

[Darren_Garrison]

Wonder how this would play in Britain? (Japan has their own weird knife laws.)

[Chronos]

What’s so odd about a law setting a maximum allowed length for a knife? Like any law setting a limit for something, there are going to be edge cases that look absurd, but after all, you have to draw the line somewhere. “Your knife is 2 mm too long” is no more absurd than “You were two days short of your 18th birthday”, or whatever.

(and before anyone brings up speeding laws and the customary 5 MPH allowance, that just means that there’s a different line drawn that they’re just not telling you about)

[Darren_Garrison]

@Chronos

What’s so odd about a law setting a maximum allowed length for a knife?

Everything.

[DPRK]

I believe in the UK it is similarly illegal to walk around with a chef’s knife or machete or other non-microscopic knife, unless you are prepared to convince the cops you are on your way to use it at work.

[DrDeth]

@Chronos

What’s so odd about a law setting a maximum allowed length for a knife? Like any law setting a limit for something, there are going to be edge cases that look absurd, but after all, you have to draw the line somewhere. “Your knife is 2 mm too long” is no more absurd than “You were two days short of your 18th birthday”, or whatever.
…

why have a limit at all? Why not allow the carrying of swords? Anyone get killed by a sword in the UK recently?

[Chronos]

I mean, given that you’re going to have any limits on knives at all. It’d be absurd if a “zombie knife” were banned, but a claymore weren’t.

[DPRK]

@Chronos

I mean, given that you’re going to have any limits on knives at all. It’d be absurd if a “zombie knife” were banned, but a claymore weren’t.

Is that the case anywhere? “Zombie knives” are only banned in the UK, right? That may or may not be absurd, but swords (except for antiques and ones made to “traditional methods” before 1954) are banned too.

So it’s perfectly legal to buy an actual 16th-century claymore; I suppose if you found a genuine antique “zombie knife” you’d have a solid argument it be legal as well.

ETA by the length criterion you can’t go around in public with one strapped to your waist, of course, legal or not

[Teuton]

@Darren_Garrison

Wonder how this would play in Britain? (Japan has their own weird knife laws.)

You could own it as a chef’s knife, but not carry it anywhere you couldn’t carry a normal chef’s knife.

The box could be problematic under the law, actually, as it does seem to possibly be promoting the knife as a weapon rather than a tool.

[Melbourne]

@Leo_Bloom

**Knives are too sharp and filing them down is solution to soaring violent crime, judge says**A [Luton Crown Court] judge has proposed a nationwide programme to file down the points of kitchen knives as a solution to the country’s soaring knife crime epidemic.

Last week in his valedictory address, retiring Luton Crown Court Judge Nic Madge spoke of his concern that carrying a knife had become routine in some circles and called on the Government to ban the sale of large pointed kitchen knives…

I understand that has a historical precedent: English dinner knives have a rounded end for that reason.

[PatrickLondon]

Just to revert to the OP: the Mail may have (quite possibly with a steer from the Home Secretary who has/had his own, erm, axe to grind) seized on the headline-grabbing “zombie knife” idea, but the actual bill (now law) was a rather more wide-ranging overhaul of various apparent loopholes in the law(s) governing offensive weapons.

[Mangetout]

@DPRK

I believe in the UK it is similarly illegal to walk around with a chef’s knife or machete or other non-microscopic knife, unless you are prepared to convince the cops you are on your way to use it at work.

Yep - there’s a lot of that sort of thing though, even for articles that have no particular restrictions - for example; if you are walking apparently aimlessly along residential streets at night, dressed in black, carrying a bag of tools including crowbar, etc, law enforcement is going to eye you differently to if you are, say, carrying the same bag of tools, walking with purpose, in daylight toward a construction site, wearing a hard hat and high vis jacket.

[Lumpy]

@Mangetout

Yep - there’s a lot of that sort of thing though, even for articles that have no particular restrictions - for example; if you are walking apparently aimlessly along residential streets at night, dressed in black, carrying a bag of tools including crowbar, etc, law enforcement is going to eye you differently to if you are, say, carrying the same bag of tools, walking with purpose, in daylight toward a construction site, wearing a hard hat and high vis jacket.

In the United States that would be reasonable suspicion for police to perform a stop, but I don’t know if it could be made an offense in and of itself.