Climbed down the stairs to the subway turnstiles yesterday. An unkempt old man was yelling at a younger, drunken unkempt man in a leather jacket. “Goof!” The younger man lost it and lunged at him, punching him to the ground, while the first man yelled for the police. A crowd of forty people stood around, doing nothing.
I yelled at the younger man. “Stop that. Calm down.” and put him in a headlock. “You’re going to calm down. I’m going to let you go, and you’re going to walk away. You’re not going to turn around or try to hit me.”
“I’m not a goof”, the young man slurred. “Nope, you’re a good man”, I said, “who has value and dignity.” When I released the headlock, he walked away without looking back.
It’s been a while since I did anything like this. Frankly, I was amazed no one else even said anything when he started punching the old man. I don’t have the faintest clue what they were fighting about. But it occurs to me that if I had seen the same thing in New York I would probably have reacted differently, not wanting to be stabbed and all.
Anyone break up a fight or bar brawl recently? Did it go well?
Having been a LEO for over 35 years I’ve broken up a zillion fights. We usually observed for a moment to determine if it’s an actual fight (mutual combat) or a battery.
In your OP it’s a tough call. Screaming at a guy and calling him a goof may not qualify as “fighting words”. What it sounds like is it was a battery and not an actual fight. But I’d let the city attorney decide what it was.
In my personal life I wouldn’t attempt to break up an actual fight between strangers. I’ve been dispatched to fight calls where some good Samaritan tried to break up a fight and got his ass kicked. Or he ended up using too much force trying to stop a fight and got charged himself. Better to just be a good witness IMHO.
Over New Years weekend my wife and I met up in St. Louis (she had been in Florida by her folks for Christmas). We spent NYE at a Kid Rock concert. Was a good time.
Prior to that, on December 30th we were in a bar. 2 guys got into a knockdown, drag out fight in the street outside the tavern. Some schmuck decide to go outside and break it up. The 2 guys fighting turned on him and took turns pounding on him. Then they came into the bar and sat next to each other and were buddy buddy the rest of the night. 10 minutes later a rescue squad/police arrived and treated dumb fuck for bruises and cuts. He declined to make a report to the police, so I didn’t have to be a witnesses. Just kept drinking my beer. YMMV.
Not an actual fist fight, but I stopped a screaming match in my store a few years ago. A middle aged white (American) man was yelling, YELLING, at a middle eastern woman, telling her that she shouldn’t be allowed to wear hijab. Explaining to her that she’s in America and she should dress like an American. Her rebuttal was that she’s an American, she’s a business owner, she has freedom of expression/speech/religion and she can dress however she wants. By the time I was made aware of the situation and made my way out there, things were pretty heated. I promptly told him he needed to leave and my kneejerk reaction was to tell her that, of course, she could wear whatever she wanted (in retrospect that does seem somewhat condescending, but I was trying to be nice/comforting, she was very upset). FWIW, this was quite a few years ago, nothing to do with the currant political climate.
20-30 minutes later she’s still here, standing outside and on her phone. I asked the person she came with what was going on, why she was still so worked up. As it turned out, at some point he pushed a door into her and she got his license plate. She sent was waiting for the police to show up to file a report. I believe her plan was see if she could have him charged with a hate crime.
I’m sure I posted about it at some point, but I can’t find it now, I’m curious as to how long ago it was.
Something I was taught when I took my CCL class, that I always remind people (and it applies here as well, kinda), is…never go into a situation because you have a gun that you wouldn’t go into without one. The examples they used were:
1)you’re at a store, you have a concealed gun, the store gets robbed. Just do what the robber says. If he points the gun at you, that’s one thing, but other than that, don’t be a hero.
2)You decide at 2 am that you suddenly want a bag of Doritos, fine, go to the gas station across the street and get one, don’t drive 20 minutes to the gas station in the crappy part of town.
On an entirely different subject, PK, did you happen to know a guy named Christ (pronounced Christy). Lived out towards Germantown (maybe just past Germantown, Fon Du Lac?). He did a lot of firearms training. In fact, I think he was a Glock(?) amorer. IIRC he was a Fon Du Lac Detective/negotiator/police officer for quite a while, but because of his role in gun training a lot of officers/deputies from surrounding areas knew him.
If you did, he just passed away about a week ago.
Yup. He was a friend of mine, I’ve actually been shooting out at his house once or twice (I have a giant bag of bullets sitting about 20 feet away from me that he gave me). But, like I said, it seems that most LEOs that I’ve spoken to (in general, not just recently) at least knew of him. Seems he did a lot of training over the last 20 or 30 years.
Yeah. But I believe he did most of his stuff in Fond du Lac and Washington Counties while I did/do the majority of my training in Milwaukee County.
I believe the last time I had contact with him was some years back. I was short 4 hours on my in-service requirement. I had only 3 days to make it up or the state could have yanked my LEO certification. I had to go up to Germantown PD and take a course they were teaching so I could get the hours. Tzakais was there. I didn’t talk a whole lot with him as I ran into an officer who I went to high school with and spent most of the day catching up with him.
It may depend on the background of one or both of the men involved. I seem to recall that Dr. Paprika is in Canada, and if one or both of the men had been in prison in Canada, the word “goof” takes on a whole different meaning.
Strange as it sounds, but based on my experiences as a Canadian lawyer defending prison inmates on institutional charges, I can attest that “goof” is one of the worst things any prison inmate can call anybody. From Wikipedia:
In short, in Canadian prisons, you can call someone a “fucking asshole,” and he will often just laugh and call you the same back. But call him a “goof” only if you are prepared for a fight. I’d expect that the word’s meaning remains the same to inmates who have been released, which may explain the situation in the OP.
I did, it was a bunch of years ago now, but there’s a thread about it that I don’t have the gumption to resurrect. It was on the Chicago CTA train, 2 against 1 and they were pounding the back of his head into a steel rail. Blood began to fly and I thought to myself “they’re going to kill that guy” - honestly if it was a standing up fistfight or the victim (who started it and I’m pretty sure it was gang related) looked more than completely powerless I wouldn’t have intervened, but I really did feel like they were going to make mush out of the back of his head.
I had to push my way through the people who had all removed themselves from their seats and were standing in front of the area I had been sitting, and I pepper sprayed the attackers. I technically missed them as I didn’t get their faces and got chest shots instead (it’s a gel formula), but it was enough to stop them. Then all three left the train at the next stop. The train operator made everyone move to another car since there was blood all over, and since all three fled before police arrived, they didn’t want any statements so I stayed on the train and went home.
That was a year or so before the new train cars rolled out - those old ones didn’t have cameras, the new ones have I think 5 cameras in each car. Stuff like that is much more rare now since police have started publishing CTA photos on the news.
I didn’t know any of this. That does indeed change the dynamic as to the situation. But it doesn’t change my opinion about stepping into the middle of a physical altercation between 2 people one doesn’t know. It’s a risky proposition.
Had the OP ended up getting his ass handed to him would the “good for you” people still feel that way or would they be questioning why he stuck his nose in the middle of it instead of looking for a policeman?
On almost a regular basis I deal with homeless drunks who scream profanities and insults at people then claim victimhood when somebody puts a boot in their ass. During my personal life no way would I step in to help a bum who was getting popped in his big mouth. I’ll just remain being a good witness should the on duty authorities arrive.
Didn’t take a side, exactly. But this wasn’t a mutual bar fight between people of similar age. I didn’t think it right to have a public assault occur without intervention. But I’ve seen people who interfere in bar fights get flattened too and am wary of knives and guns and such. I don’t recommend getting involved in altercations, and never heard “goof” as anything other than a mild put down. Have no idea if that was the trigger, the younger guy seemed drunk to me.
