BTK Killer Confesses in Court.

[straight_man]

@carnivorousplant

I believe Karla Homolka is an example.

I was under the distinct impression that she got just as much pleasure out of the murders as her hubby. Regardless, she did more than just help a serial killer; she actually took part in the killings. That’s more than just a serial groupy, IMHO.

Amazon Floozy Goddess, your suggestion is disgusting and reprehensible at every level. The most important thing about life imprisonment: you can take it back. With Rader this is really unlikely, but in virtually every case, there is some vague possibility that the sentencing was wrong; that the accused is innocent. Now, it is bad enough that some people are discovered innocent after twenty years in prison, and have to start their life over. It is worse if their dead. It is worst of all if they have been tortured to death. Death is a punishment that (very arguably) no human has the right to carry out on another human being. Torture is a punishment that absolutely no human or even institution has the right to carry out on a human being.

I’m also not sure why the victims should get to decide how to punish the perpetrators of crime. The whole point of trial by jury is impartiality; the family is never impartial, and I often see families going nuts on TV, trying to lash out at whoever is available, regardless of whether or not their target is guilty. In other words, the primary goal of most victims’ families is punishment, not justice. Fine, I wouldn’t expect otherwise. They’re distraught. Punishing a murderer does not bring back his/her victims, and as such, the family of the victim cannot be helped by the death or torture of the murderer. Only time and therapy (and God) can heal the pain.

And in the meantime, Amazon Floozy Goddess wants to do things to these people that I wouldn’t support having done to insects.

Disgusting. Just disgusting.

[Amazon_Floozy_Goddess]

Look. I’m not the only one who offered that kind of viewpoint, so why the fuck is all the vitriol coming down on me? And do you know, do you REALLY know for sure how you would react if you were in the victim’s shoes unless it actually happened to you? Maybe you would be full of anger. Maybe not. If it happened to me, maybe I would feel differently. Who the hell knows? I find this case just as sickening as everyone else, and I’m just reacting to it in a way that many people would: angrily. I mean, this fucker tied a one of his victims, a little girl, to pipes in a basement and killed her. This makes a lot of people see red. Don’t you understand? There’s been a LOT of threads here about child molesters, other murderers, etc., where people came in just to say , “I hope that monster rots in hell forever; I’d like to have him strung up by the balls; etc; etc” and nobody came on to reply, “You’re disgusting!” SO WHY HEAP THIS SHIT ON ME FOR EXPRESSING AN ANGRY STATEMENT? I spend very little time in the Pit. I like to try to be optimistic. Do a search for the threads I’m in and you’ll see that. So why, when I express valid anger in a pit thread, do people wonder why I’m not Mary Fucking Sunshine all of a sudden???

This thread is supposed to be bashing Dennis Rader. I just put in my two cents about the bastard like everyone else, so just back the fuck off.

[Metacom]

@Amazon Floozy Goddess

Look. I’m not the only one who offered that kind of viewpoint, so why the fuck is all the vitriol coming down on me?

Because you’re the only one who bothered to stick around and defend it. Did I not call Evil Captor and everyone else taking the same position a disgusting moral degenerate the last time you said you were feeling singled out? Do you want me to do it again?

And do you know, do you REALLY know for sure how you would react if you were in the victim’s shoes unless it actually happened to you?

Of course not. But victims don’t decide what happens to criminals, nor should they, because their emotions can make them incapable of making rational decisions. Ditto for their families.

And none of this means that we shouldn’t sympathize with the victims and help them got on with their lives the best that we can.

I find this case just as sickening as everyone else, and I’m just reacting to it in a way that many people would: angrily.

You can be angry without advocating using criminals as the subjects of involuntary medical experiments.

There’s been a LOT of threads here about child molesters, other murderers, etc., where people came in just to say , “I hope that monster rots in hell forever; I’d like to have him strung up by the balls; etc; etc” and nobody came on to reply, “You’re disgusting!”

I can’t speak for everyone else, but I believe I’ve condemned and argued against such language several times in the pit. It’s a hard thing to search for, but I could try…

I just put in my two cents about the bastard like everyone else, so just back the fuck off.

No.

[Shagnasty]

@carnivorousplant

We may argue about it’s being cruel, but it’s certainly unusual, and the Constitution won’t let us do that.

It would only seem unusual the first few times. After that, it will be old hat.

[Siege]

Excuse me. I’m about to wear my naivete on my sleeve.

What really freaks me out about this guy is he claims to be some sort of a Christian! He was president of his church and did I really read that he still says he reads the Bible every day?!! He went to a meeting at a church with the body of a woman he’d killed in the trunk of his car. How could God allow this? I sincerely believe the ground church’s are built on is holy and sacred, made so by God and the intentions of the people who gather there. How could the earth not object?

Oh yes. This is the realistic, pragmatic 21st century and God doesn’t intervene that directly. This man deliberately and willfully harmed others for his own personal gain in the form of pleasure. That, to me, is one of the basic definitions of evil.

I’m no fan of the death penalty. I think it’s applied far too often and too many innocent people have been executed. There are cases in which I support it, though, and this is one of them. There is no doubt between the killer’s confession and other evidence. As far as I can make out, there’s no remorse in him, despite the teachings of the religion he desecrates by claiming to practice it. Even for him, I can’t condone cruelty, but I would volunteer to kill him cleanly. Even a creature like him shouldn’t suffer, despite the suffering he’s inflicted on others, because I will not sink to his level.

Excuse me. The morning paper’s arrived. I’ll go put on my usual, cynical mask now.

With no respect for Rader, only tears,
CJ

[Evil_Captor]

@Pedro

Evil Captor what are you expecting to find? We don’t even understand basic functions of the brain completely yet.

Exactly. There is much we do not understand about the brain. But it’s pretty clear that the way the brain is organized has a LOT to do with what kind of person its owner is. And that problems in the brain can cause sex/violence disorders. Frex, there are certain forms of temporal lobe epilepsy that can cause otherwise normal people to engage in bizarre sexual fetishes when the epilepsy strikes. One woman, for example, would go to a nearby diner and take off all her clothes during her seizures. A man would experience a sensation like a blow to the stomach and then a desire to cross-dress.

All of these “sexual fetishes” ended when the seizures ended, and were controllable with the same drugs that control seizures.

I submit to you that if there’s ANYTHING like that going on in the brains of sociopaths/serial killers, we need to find out about it and figure out how to deal with it. It could save many people from being kidnapped and tortured to death.

Maybe that’s not so important to you that we should try. Maybe you’re cool with people being tortured and kill, so long as you get to kill the ones who do it. I personally don’t think there’s anything I or anyone could do to Rader to match the horror of his crimes … there is, after all, only one of him … and I seriously doubt that he’s capable of understanding them in the way you or I do anyway. (If he could, he wouldn’t have done them in the first place.)

Environment is a big part of the equation anyway. Many serial killers have a history of family disfunction that distorts their personality. Who can really say how you or me would have turned out if growing up severely emotionally and physically abused? Certainly I would be a different person. Of course this doesn’t excuse the actions of serial killers, but it is a common characteristic of psychopaths.

No one can say, as you say. There is much to be learned. So let’s study it. Maybe we can get the number of people tortured and killed a lot closer to an acceptable figure, such as 0. That would be a good thing, I submit.

Frankly I don’t think there is anything wrong with them sometimes, in the sense of being broken humans. I don’t believe a “normal” person is good and moral. That’s a naive view. Some people like to inflict pain apparently. Other people have weird sexual fetishes. Others like the color blue. Why? Who knows? And as long as they don’t harm anybody else who cares? These people become undesirables when they can’t or won’t control themselves and should be weeded out for their crimes. In prison or executed, doesn’t make much difference to me. Execution in a better deterent, cheaper too and works well as a punishment so I say go for it.

Oh, let’s see, your argument is, “Studying psychopaths is hard, and some psychopaths might be normal people who did terrible things for reasons we just don’t understand. So let’s not study it, that would be hard and maybe fruitless. Le’ts just go on letting them torture and kill people until the end of time, so long as we get to imprison and kill them too eventually.”

I think that’s a fair paraphrase of your argument. If you’ve got something better, I’d love to hear it. Because so far as I can see, your solution does little or nothing to solve the problem that psychopaths present.

[Pedro]

I wasn’t proposing a preventive solution because I don’t think there is one.

Besides there are people already doing these studies you speak of, minus the lobotomies.

I’m not really seeing how what you propose saves lives either.

[BJMoose]

@GLWasteful

One of the things that gets me is that he ceased to be BTK for a very long time. He suddenly became a regular guy: married, family, churchgoer &c. And I was always under the impression that your average serial killer usually feels a driving compulsion to kill again and again. That’s usually what seems to get them caught.

But Rader was able to repress those feelings (if, indeed, he even had them) and become just a regular joe. . . .

Actually, he never “became” an average Joe. He was married when his spree began in 1974, and he continued killing on and off for 26 years (that he admitted to) until 1991 which, interestingly, is about the time he became a compliance officer for the Wichita suburb of Park City (it is said he was rejected as a policeman candidate in the early 70s (though he went on to earn a college degree in Administration of Justice- basically cop courses). If anything besides age ended his “projects” it was the chance to play cop and push around people in his job.

That was the really chilling thing about this guy - that he was well-integrated into society (which probably why they couldn’t get a line on the guy till he tipped his hand).

I watched the whole allocution live on local TV and I disagree with those who thought he was enjoying the experience. He struck me as being quite matter-of-fact - and thus the poster boy for the term “cold-blooded.”
Anyone who wants to wallow in this will check out the Wichita Eagle’s website at kansas.com .