Buffy 02/18/03 - Get it done (spoilers)

Cafe Society
41

I thought Buffy’s speech was harsh, too, but needed. Especially the part about Chloe being weak, stupid and selfish… because she WAS. Everyone in Buffy’s house know about the First. They know that it can take the form of loved ones, that it lies, that it reveals truths to suit its purpose, and that its one single objective is to conquer the forces of good. Chloe knew all of this, and STILL conversed with it, still listened to it, and let it drive her to suicide. Which was weak, and stupid, and selfish. Buffy’s speech was not a blanket condemnation of everyone who commits suicide. It was a condemnation of an individual who knowingly allowed herself to be manipulated to death (literally) by Evil.

I haven’t made up my mind about Buffy’s time with the men who created the first Slayer. I thought Buffy was stupid abnd narrow-minded to turn down the offer of more power, but I don’t really see any evidence that it was three tribesmen acting alone to create the Slayer. Their actions don’t negate the possibility that the Powers That Be didn’t orchestrate that or that the don’t govern the rules of how Slayerhood is passed from one Slayer to the next.

Dawn was actually not annoying! But when did she become so good at translation, especially of what I thought they said was Sumerian?

42

I suppose Dawn’s been brushing up on her Sumerian while the SITs do their training, or perhaps she’s having some private tutorials with Giles (sigh, flutter). I’d like to see more of Dawn how she was in this episode, less of the Slayer’s Little Sister and more of a Scoobie. I really liked the Shadow Muppet sequence when it was cast on the walls and came to life, and the delivery of Dawn’s “it’s not in Sumerian anymore” line.

I was distracted by a phone call at the beginning of the episode, and I sort of missed what the First Slayer said to Buffy in the dream. Anyone? And why does Buffy insist on not sharing her dreams or acting on them? Seeing Chloe weeping in the corner might have been a nice tip-off that things weren’t A-OK with her. But I guess I can chalk that up to plot advancement, or something.

{QUOTE] I’m
uncomfortable with both Spike and Willow being told to reachinto the dark for their power while
Buffy rejects the dark aspect of her power.
[/QUOTE]

Good point, pepperlandgirl. Could it be she’s still skittish about “coming back wrong”?

43

The First Slayer said, “It’s not enough.” And I think Buffy may have forgot about the Chloe part of her dream because she was so startled by what the First Slayer said.

44

Sorry- has to skip the spoiler (it was hard though).

By not embracing her dark side do you mean her refusal to merge with the demon black cloud? Because otherwise she certainly has been riding everyone (including herself) hard. In fact, IMHO, she was much harder on Willow then Spike.

While both of them have reason to be concerned, Buffy needs them to stop pulling their punches. They are the 2 people on the team that the First actually seems to fear. It tried get Willow to fear magic (and kill herself) and tried to convert Spike to its team, then it moved to turning Wood (who I still don’t trust) onto Spike. If the First is to be defeated- Willow and Spike will have to play major parts in that defeat. The way things stood, that was not going to happen. Buffy simply said what had to be said. Spike made his own decision. Spike chose to get that coat. Spike decided to get back in the game.

IMHO- If that coat was pandering, it wasn’t to Buffy’s desires.

45

And maybe the fact the First Slayer totally ambushed her in her own home and knocked her down the stairs. :slight_smile:

46

Being manipulated by the first and attempting to commit suicide is weak and selfish, and nobody we know every allowed the First to get to them and make them attemt suicide…oh wait. Except the Champion of the People. But hey, Lord knows I have no problem calling said Champion weak, stupid, and an idiot.
Chloe was probably a very frightened 15 year old girl, knowing that death was literally waiting for her outside, away from her family and friends in a strange town. The First Evil isn’t some small time player…it’s the source of all evil since the beginning of time. How is a frightened 15 year old girl supposed to stand up to the source of all evil?

47

I don’t know if the term “spy” is right, but Gaspode does review things for AICN.

48

Evil Death

Well, the box was locked for one thing. For another the three stooges, er, tribesmen didn’t give any indication that they’d encountered another Slayer beyond the First Slayer. Finally, the “heart of the demon” smoke that would give a Slayer more power was still there and had they encountered another Slayer and offered her the power boost she either would have taken it or at least reported it to her Watcher and there’s been no reference to said power boost or for that matter the box. So all of this leads me to believe that Buffy was the first Slayer to enjoy Shadow Muppet Theatre.

Not really getting what the confusion is over the “nice coat” reference. Am I misremembering or did TFE not appear as Wood’s mother (how do we know her name is “Nikki” BTW? I don’t recall hearing it outside of these threads) wearing that same coat? If not, it’s possible that Wood either remembers the coat or has seen pictures of his mother wearing it and so recognizes it as hers. It’s pretty obvious the exchange was Wood’s working to confirm Spike’s ID as his mother’s murderer.

49

I have a thought… (I know, but bear with me )

Isn’t it a little convenient that after talking to his “Mom”, Wood shows up with the goody bag? With the box that no one had opened before?

What if TFE had him bring that to Buffy? And the Old guys were actually trying to force Buffy to become partially demonic. Take away her humanity.

That would explain Willow’s hair turning black. She had to open Evil’s door and had to be evil to do it.

Just my thoughts…

50

OK…I just want to say that I really, really DISLIKE Kennedy. Who the hell does she think she is? Last time I checked she was a “potential” just like all the other girls. Sure she is with Willow so she gets some benefits but why is she sitting in on the scoobie meetings, she is not part of the scoobie’s. Why is she training the other potential’s? It really should be Buffy and Spike training them. Kennedy isn’t any stronger than any of the other potentials. If anything the potential from Sunnydale High (can’t remember her name) should help train the “potentials”. I mean this girl (Sunnydale High) just found out she was a potential slayer and was able to take out like 3 vamps or hooded guys by herself armed only with a flag pole. Yet Kennedy and the 3 other girls had to work together to take out one vamp. The thing that really made me dislike Kennedy though was when they were all in the kitchen and Spike came in with his coat on and said that he was going to go kill the demon. Kennedy said something along the lines of “like you did before, getting thrown in to the ceiling…” and then she went on to insuniate that Spike was not important because “we” have all the power. I am not sure if she was referring to the “potential’s” or her and Willow. In either case the “potential’s” have no power yet, and in the case of her and Willow, well Willow has power not you. I mean she is new to the group and already getting such a swollen head. Maybe she does not know this but Spike is a vamp and a strong one at that, he could break her neck before she even blinked.

I really hope they get rid of her.
Sorry, I just needed to vent. She really aggravated me. She almost ruined the episode for me. Almost.
I still liked the episode. :slight_smile:

51

Cool!

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Davena:

What was he going to do, bring it along on the date?
“What’s in the bag?”
“Umm… CD’s.”

Sad that Xander is back to being everybody’s butt-monkey again. Sacrificial lamb this week, bitch-slapped into the wall this week. Especially sad that he’s ignoring everything he’s ever learned as a Scoobie and is mocking the powerful magic artifacts.

Also sad that Buffy identifies Andrew as the brains of the outfit, perhaps even sadder that she might actually be right.

53

Unless I miss my guess, the uruk-hai Spike killed was just a side effect, a la wrecked/smashed/the crackwhore episode, and the huge army of Turakhans was what is on the other side of the Seal of Danzathar.

You know what would be cool? A series of short 5-second shots of filling concrete over the Seal, Amy being eaten by one of Andrew’s demons, Willow attending/dropping out of class, and a bunch of other loose ends being tied up.

54

When I read this I thought of Babylon 5 when Sheridan realized that the Vorlons and the Shadows were not that different. He basically “flipped them the bird” and told them to stop meddling, we don’t need you anymore.

So for Buffy just trying to be human is like saying, “Hey First, Hey Powers, blow me I’m not playing your game anymore.”

Just a thought.

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The Amazing Gaspode is the talking wonder dog of Discworld fame and the origin for my nick here. When It came time to register, I was bashful enough to exclude ‘amazing’.

But, um, no. I’m not the same person as the one using this nick at AICN.

56

Just a few notes:

–Dawn cannot read Sumerian. The text translated itself for her while Buffy was present. After Buffy jumped into the other dimension, it went back to being unreadable.

–ME will not kill Kennedy. They got so much crap for killing Tara, I highly doubt they’ll kill another lesbian girlfriend of Willow’s. As much as I loathe Kennedy, that would be ovrekill (pun intended). OTOH, Kennedy is an arrogant little git who should remember her place. Willow should ditch her pronto.

–Someone should tell Principal Wood that there hasn’t really ever been a Slayer before who hasn’t died at the hands of a demon. Being pissed at Spike for killing her when he was a soulless monster is ridiculous, and getting revenge on him would be as selfish and idiotic as what Chloe did.

–Personally, I agreed with Buffy about Chloe. She was weak and her selfish act undermined the morale bigtime. Also, Anya needs to stick a sock in it. If she could lay off the sarcasm and unproductive negativity, she might actually help rather than just annoy. She’s more of a leech than Andrew, who at least cooks up funnel cakes (those would help my morale, I tell you).

Problems with the speech:

–What she said to Spike really ticked me off: when he was Bad, she couldn’t let herself love him; in fact, she used him as an animated dildo and beat him seless b/c she had so little respect or regard for him. Now that he’s Good, she misses the Bad Spike and chastises him for not longer being so, thus proving that you can’t win with some people.

–Get off Willow’s ass. She has very real issues with using magic of which she must be very mindful at all times. When she does use magic, she becomes well, evil. Is that what Buffy really wants?

–Buffy tells Willow and Spike that they’re wimps for being afraid of their darks sides, yet she rejects much-needed power from a legitimate source b/c she doesn’t want to be tainted? Too late, honey.

–Where in the hell was Giles?

57

Just a few notes:

–Dawn cannot read Sumerian. The text translated itself for her while Buffy was present. After Buffy jumped into the other dimension, it went back to being unreadable.

–ME will not kill Kennedy. They got so much crap for killing Tara, I highly doubt they’ll kill another lesbian girlfriend of Willow’s. As much as I loathe Kennedy, that would be ovrekill (pun intended). OTOH, Kennedy is an arrogant little git who should remember her place. Willow should ditch her pronto.

–Someone should tell Principal Wood that there hasn’t really ever been a Slayer before who hasn’t died at the hands of a demon. Being pissed at Spike for killing her when he was a soulless monster is ridiculous, and getting revenge on him would be as selfish and idiotic as what Chloe did.

–Personally, I agreed with Buffy about Chloe. She was weak and her selfish act undermined the morale bigtime. Also, Anya needs to stick a sock in it. If she could lay off the sarcasm and unproductive negativity, she might actually help rather than just annoy. She’s more of a leech than Andrew, who at least cooks up funnel cakes (those would help my morale, I tell you).

Problems with the speech:

–What she said to Spike really ticked me off: when he was Bad, she couldn’t let herself love him; in fact, she used him as an animated dildo and beat him seless b/c she had so little respect or regard for him. Now that he’s Good, she misses the Bad Spike and chastises him for not longer being so, thus proving that you can’t win with some people.

–Get off Willow’s ass. She has very real issues with using magic of which she must be very mindful at all times. When she does use magic, she becomes well, evil. Is that what Buffy really wants?

–Buffy tells Willow and Spike that they’re wimps for being afraid of their darks sides, yet she rejects much-needed power from a legitimate source b/c she doesn’t want to be tainted? Too late, honey.

–Where in the hell was Giles?

58

When Buffy forces the lock, Wood starts to say, “That hasn’t been opened since…” So it’s been opened in recorded history. Probably by his mom. The three shamans probably didn’t offer previous Slayers the demon smoke because previous Slayers weren’t about to fight The First Evil. You save the big guns for the big targets.

It was established earlier this season that Kennedy has been training since she was a young girl. The bulk of the potentials apparently had never even heard of the Slayer until they started getting stalked by the Bringers. So it makes a certain amount of sense that she’d get the drill seargent role.

59

No, I actually think she can. We literally saw the words change from Sumerian to English, and Dawn was translating, with a little difficulty, before that happened.

Later, when she said the book wasn’t readable anymore, the pages were blank, rendering it useless.

60

The way it looked to me - the letters were gone from the page. So it was not as if it was unreadable. It was… used?

Re: Giles - ASH made a contract to just be on some of the shows this year. IIRC it was ten. He wants to be with family and friends in England (and the shots with Willow from the beginning of the season was from his hom). So when he’s in the show, he’s credited as “guest star” or maybe even the coveted “special guest star”.
Where he is in the show? Off finding more potentials? Talking to shamans in Tibet about what can be done about Morphy? We’ll get an axplanation. Or not. My bet is on ‘not’.