OK, so I’m a late convert to Buffy, watching the show only as the seasons came out on DVD. I’ve now seen them all (thanks to an imported British Season 7), and I have some questions.
First of all, why all the hate for season 6, and particularly season 7? I’ve read many offhand comments about how seasons 6 is bad and season 7 is dreadful. I thought season 6 was just fine, maybe not quite as good as season 5 but definitely close, with some fantastic episodes (particularly, of course, Once More With Feeling). I thought season 7 was a bit worse, but hardly a disaster.
My primary issues with season 7 (spoilered just because):
-I just don’t buy everyone voting Buffy out and Faith in. I was sure that it was going to be revealed that it was all due to the horrible psychological/magical influence of The First (which was making police officers turn into bullies, etc.). But nothing of that sort was ever mentioned
-The ubervampires were so horribly fast and strong that Buffy barely barely was able to kill one. Then when zillions of them show up, everyone seems to be able to fight them just fine.
On the other hand, things I liked about season 7:
-Several of the specific episodes, including the one with Anya’s origin, the one with the enchanted lust-jacket, and the finale
-Both the first ubervamp and Caleb were excellent villains
-I loved the potential slayers, and the wake-up-all-slayers plot twist
-Who doesn’t love a bad-ass magical axe pulled from a stone?
Anyhow, why the hate? What are other people’s consensus opinions on these topics?
A friend of mine and I have a working theory about this. If you watch an entire season without the long breaks, and without talking to people about it (that is, rushing online and posting your thoughts as soon as you watch an ep…) the experience is much more enjoyable.
For example, I heard bad things about AtS s1 and s3. I watched both seasons back to back without interuption and fell madly in love with them. The same thing happened when I watched the full 1st season of the X-Files–I even liked the clunkers.
So, when you watch a full season, you get the entire story arc, you don’t get impatient, or time to think about all the things you hate, and you don’t get negative reviews.
Also, everybody is going to have different reasons for disliking a season. I guarentee that my reasons for hating S7 is not going to be the same for everybody else. In fact, it call comes down to the surprise kiss with Angel and “Does it have to mean anything?” Seems an odd reason to hate an entire season, but both things stung pretty bad at the time, for me. The season finale did little to alleviate it…
It’s just a theory, but it seems to be accurate in my limited application. I think eventually I will buy S6 on DVD (haven’t felt the driving need to yet…) probably when S7 comes out, and I’ll watch both seasons back to back and see if that changes my perception ofit.
From what I remember a lot of people complained that S6 Buffy was “too dark”. They didn’t like “Life” as the Big Bad. For me - S6 is one of my favourite seasons (along with S3 & S5). I loved the darkness and they had some brilliant episodes (Once More With Feeling and Tabula Rasa for a couple examples).
There are a ton of reasons I hate season 6. I think the writing took a huge, huge dive, I think they devote way more time to boring and plodding melodrama than to action or, say, the slaying of vampires, I hate Spike and he was featured extremily heavily all season, I hate Spuffy even more, I hate Willow’s stupid magic addiction storyline, I hate the Trio (and even more that Andrew becomes a regular part of the gang during season 7), I hate the Xander/Anya storyline (never cared one lick about them as a couple, and their wedding takes up way too much time and bores me to tears), I hate Darth Willow and I especially hate the way the season ends - the Yellow Crayon speech and Buffy and Dawn’s Tampax moment in the cave. Ugh! There are many more reasons I hate the season, but those are some big ones. My hatred for season 6 really knows no bounds - it’s easily my least favorite season of any Joss show ever. I’ll still buy it and watch it once I have th funds (and I’ll watch “Once More, With Feeling,” “Tabula Rasa,” and “Normal Again” multiple times), but mostly I despise the whole misbegotten season (including “Gone,” which I think is one of the worst episodes of anything I’ve ever seen). Bleh.
People talk about season 6 being “too dark,” but I don’t even think that’s really the case. I think they tangled subjects just as dark or darker in earlier seasons. And I have no problem with darkness; I like darkness. I just think Buffy s6 was amazingly poorly-written, poorly-paced, and poorly-conceived darkness.
I don’t dislike s7 as much as some people do. I hate the Slayers in Training, Spike’s Soul, Robin Wood, the First, and Caleb, true, but mostly the season just bores me and doesn’t make much sense.
I love season 6 it’s my…3rd favourite of the 6 I saw enough of to jusge (3, 1, 6, 5, 2, 4). I also like season 1 of Angel best. Actually, second best - the last season had Smile Time which manages to trump Doyle’s presence.
S6 and 5 are probably my favorites, but then again I do like Spike and I do like Spuffy. I also have always kinda preferred Bad Willow to Good Willow. I absolutely hated each and every one of the potential slayers, including Kennedy, but I thought Caleb was the scariest Bad of any season, Big or Little. Nothing like an evil misogynistic religious nut to scare the living shit out of me! I like Andrew, too. He’s funny. Besides the potentials, the only one who consistently and progressively annoyed me was Xander. Uptight, bloated, punning badly and just no fun at all. Bleah.
He annoyed me a lot too. Especially in episode 12 of season 7 when he gave Dawn the speech about how he “sees things”. Sure you do, Xander. And Spike killed his time during the day doing naked push-ups.
I liked season 6. I reserve the Hate for season 7.
There are things I liked about S7. I liked the idea of the Slayerettes, Robin Wood was badass, the First Evil visiting you as dead people was an inspired idea. And of course, the flashcards. Have you not seen the flashcards?
But there are also many things to hate, the worst being the second most tragic thing about the cancellation of Firefly, namely that it freed up what’s his name to play the obvious and laughably, horribly bad Caleb.
Though in the end I think all of that is irrelevant, whether the good parts are greater or fewer than the bad bits. The main problem is that it doesn’t form a coherent whole. The Angel crew did an admirable job of finding closure given the surprise cancellation, while on Buffy they had more than enough time to tie it all together and failed miserably. It truly seemed like they were making it up as they went along. They veered from idea to idea, abandoned plot threads with glee, and built up others (like Robin vs. Spike) just to have them peter out.
And the ending? Geesh?
Let’s stop the horde of vampires by preventing them from entering the lethal sunlight.
I’m a late convert to the shows, having only become a fan in the past month or so, and watch the reruns of the show on FX. When I first startd watching, the show was near the end of S5 and I watched more out of boredom and a lack of anything else to do than any genuine interest but as time went on, I got more and more into the show as S6 progressed and it kept my interest all the way through S7 as well although I didn’t much care for Buffy’s morphing into a bitch.
I’m now watching the first episodes of S1 and am starting to get bored with it all. I’m already a fan so I will continue to watch but if S1 is included in the Golden Age of Buffy, I’ll be thoroughly confused as to what people want out of the show.
I’m just hoping these first few episodes are the ones where all the kinks are worked out of the concept and that it finds its groove pretty quickly.
Another late convert here. I agree with a lot of what Pepperlandgirl said, I know I never liked it when it was on–seeing it in bits and pieces made the flipness seem, well, too flip, instead of whistling-in-the-dark. But seeing the seasons within shorter timeframes tipped the balance, and I began to care about the characters–that is what makes even bad episodes okay to watch, at least you get to see what they are doing.
Okay, I’ll admit it–Spike is what first captured me. He is beautiful, but what I really responded to was his glee and unbridledness.
For me, season 6 is uneven but does have its moments, but the second half of season 7 is great. But then, I really responded to the Spike/Soul storyline. It is a type of pain that fascinates me.
What I love about this thread is how the show appeals to such wide differences in tastes. I didn’t mind the slayerettes, but Caleb seemed wooden to me. The coat episode in Season 7 would get my vote for all-time worst, yet it was someone else’s favorite. It is fascinating how we are all in tune with different dilemmas.
Okay, I know it must be a boring question for the old-time fans, but humor me: why did Buffy’s death at the end of Season 5 not call a new slayer?
Because the Slayer Line doesn’t go through Buffy anymore - it goes through Faith.
Buffy died at the end of the first season. This summoned a new slayer, who was promptly offed by Dru. This resulted in Faith. I think that as far as the Slayer line is concerned, Buffy’s replacement is already there. It’s only when Faith dies that a new Slayer will be called.
My problem with the last season was that the First keeps talking about some big Machievellian plan. In the finale we learn that the big plan is To open the seal and unleash an army of ubervamps
How in the shrimpworld is this a plan? The first could have attempted this at any time without any preperation.
I liked Caleb. My two favorite Caleb moments are when he and the First reenact a murder he commited a century ago (‘My words are like a sword.’) and the sermon he gives to the first ('For what was Eve, but a woman?).
I think the jacket episode fits with the hole theme of the show. Xander is out of highschool, and he’s never been popular. But, he’s got a hot girlfriend/exfiancee/vengance demon who wants to liquify his intestines/ woman to play ‘shiver me timber’ with. He’s also got a good job, with good pay, and coworkers who trust and respect him. The popular jock from high school has nothing. The jacket is a metaphor for being popular in high school (Considering the theme of growing up that runs through most episodes, I don’t think I’m reading too much into the jacket). It may seem important at the time, but in the real world it doesn’t get you anything. When Spike and Xander try it on, they find that they’ve outgrown it.
But, Neurotik, there is a lot of talk in Season 7 that the slayerettes are sort of waiting for Buffy to die. That is one thing that freaked out Dawn when she thought she might be one.
(I mean, how likely is it that the show had any inconsistencies? )
DocCathode, I like your take on the jacket episode (although I don’t think Spike tried it on), but it just seemed so already done–less a follow-on to the irresistable Zander episode than a recap of the same storyline. And it seemed so wrong for Buffy to take on a student when she’s a counselor, and for even Willow to be smitten. Plus, why wasn’t the guy mobbed by girls all the time? But you do bring out some interesting resonances, and I will look forward to any commentaries when the DVD comes out.
I liked season 7 as well - season 6 on the other hand was bad, because three nerds just don’t make good villians. They should have kicked the evil willow storyline off earlier, the last 2 episodes with willow as the big bad are really great; and seeing Giles kick some ass was good for a change too.
So my ranking of the seasons is as follows: 3, 7, 2, 4, 1, 5, 6
And if you include Angel, then it would look like this: A3, B3, B7, A5, A4, B2, A1, A2, B4, B1, B5, B6
Although I have to admit that I haven’t seen the last couple of episodes of Angel Season 5 yet, so the final verdict on that may improve once I get around to watching it.
So the awakening of all the slayers-in-training was a one time thing? I was under the impression that whenever any girl was born to be a possible slayer, she would just be a slayer immediately. So if Faith dies, it would be irrelevant (although I would weep like a baby).
It would be right now. But this happened at the end of season 7, so when buffy died in season 5, it wouldn’t have triggered a new slayer back then. If faith had died at any point before the end of season 7 though, a new slayer would have been appointed.
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