First the admins lawyers(the bad ones) decide that human rights/the rules of the Geneva Convention don’t have to be applied to the Taliban and Al-Queda. Then this gets extended to ANY prisoner who is deemed a “terrorist,” whether sent to Guantanamo, or Abu Ghraib.
Will it be extended domestically to anyone who disagrees with the admin? Far-fetched you say? Sure. And McCarthyism never happened. Nazism was just a dream. The average person just wouldn’t stand for such things.
The issue of reciprocity is not the most important one here. One of the primary reasons why laws like the Geneva Conventions exist is to make a transition to a post-conflict society possible. Any chance the United States had at being able to govern Iraq in peace is destroyed by our torturing of innocent people.
Other sources indicate this story is presently being investigated by the U.S. military in Iraq. There are a number of other allegations of rape of female prisoners and abuse of children as well.
Extremely poor examples. A huge number of Vietnameses died in Vietnam when “you” were there. And a lot of people in Cambodia too, since the US bombed Cambodia.
I’m not aware that millions died in Vietnam after the USA left.
I’m aware that millions died in Cambodia (that the US didn’t left, since the US wasn’t there at the first place…except for the aformentionned bombings). I’m also aware that the US governemnent publicaly condemned the people (hint : these people weren’t americans) who eventually overthrew the Red Khmers (you know, the guys who killed millions) in Cambodia.
Just so you know for future reference, this was an unnecessary translation. They have been historically called the Khmer Rouge here as well.
And just because it’s not said enough (about just about any of our non-English-speaking Dopers), we do appreciate the work you put into translating your thoughts into English, clair, and the quality of that translation (see if most of us could do any better in French!).
Warning - the following is how I feel about the situation, if you don’t like it you can (checking… yes this is the pit) kiss my …
After the beheading (and 9/11 aka the attack on NYC and the pentagon, the USS Cole and the World Trade Center (Where did I hear this before, oh yea they were attacked 2x, once in 92 and then again in 01 when they were destroyed), I really don’t give a flying one to what is done to the terrorist scumbags.
That said, these issues about our troops tourchering iraqi (terrorist scumbags)EPW’s (POW’s) are non-issuse and I’m sure that the terrorsits scumbags, and for that matter Saddam Husaine (who I’m sure has cable TV in his cell) are laughing their collective @$$e$ off that we are even mentioning that we are abusing the iraqi EPW’s. Abuse that is no more then humiliation, to the worst human beings on the face of the earth!!! I think that is pretty darn nice, unrealistically so, almost to the point that we hope God Himself is mercyfull.
I’d kiss your ass but I think I’d have problems figuring out where you end and it begins.
The prisoners at Abu Ghraib were not all terrorists. In fact, 70-90% of them had nothing to do with either terrorism or the insurgency or Hussein. And much worse than humiliation was apparently done. Do you even read newspapers or, even easier, the cites given in this and similar threads? Or are you so busy worshipping the Burning Bush that you can’t be bothered with facts?
I wonder what it’s like to have the simple, naive, sad belief that an entire nation is made up of terrorists. It’s more of an intellectual curiosity, because I would never want to be that ignorant, not even to see what it’s like. I guess I can live vicariously through some people on this board who bought all of Bush’s lies hook line and sinker.
From the article:
Rumsfield took a gamble here and it would have worked too…god, it almost did work. People were buying this shit and spouting off that exact same line on this very board. That scares me more than anything. Bush knows he can lie and Bush knows he can get away with it. There’s evidence in this very thread that that’s the case.
I hope people who were played like a fucking fiddle from the very beginning are filled with righteous anger. They lied to all of us in full confidence that we’d buy it, and god help us, we would have if this story never broke.
You may be right. Saddam Husain and the bunch may be laughing their collective assess off, but not for the reasons you might imagine. We are creating the best damn recruitment system they have ever seen. :wally
You know, sometimes I feel like I’m pissing into the wind. Hersh must feel the same way.
On May 8, Billdo started a thread titled “Army Sec Said No Lawyers: Now I Conclude Torture Scandal Went to the Top”.
The evidence screams and has been for quite a while now that everyone in this unbelievably corrupt, hypocritical, and brutal Administration knew this, and either didn’t care or actually approved of it. I saw Rumsfeld testify before the Senate, and I came away with the distinct impression that the one thing that truly made him angry is that the pictures became public. Not the impression he wanted to leave, but if you were watching and you watched him closely, that was the impression he gave.
They will continue to do this for as long as they can get away with it. That means as long as they are still in office, because there’s a million ways of doing these things so that you don’t get caught, starting, of course, with not taking any pictures.
It’s still going on, right now. Count on it. Don’t act shocked when you find out that this is true, either. As long as they’re there this will go on. The ICRC knows this, Amnesty International knows it. Don’t be naive.
I firmly believe that our only insurance against this is to insist that Kerry make McCain his running mate, and put him in charge of cleaning out the armed forces and the intelligence services of the scum who do these things. Also, everyone involved in this scandal needs to be prosecuted, and that means everyone, including Bush if his involvement can be proven. If ever something cried out for a policy of zero tolerance, this is it.
“M-O-O-N, that spells justice!” “Tel algrnon I luv him and that the Iraky prizonrs got off luky”
Seriously, though, every point you try to make in your post has been answered in this thread alone, not to mention the half-dozen or so that have sprung up in the Pit.
Remember when this whole Iraq war started? We were trying so hard to be the “good guys”? At the very least, we could have, you know, not tortured our POWs. As someone who has actually had to learn about the Law Of Armed Conflict and the Geneva Convention in my military career, even the things in the photographs we’ve been allowed to see are not kosher. And the people doing those things for damn sure had those briefings. I’m just waiting to see how far up the chain this reaches.
I don’t believe there’s any chance McCain would accept even if Kerry were to offer. There’s probably a better chance of getting him to accept a cabinet post as Sec. of Defense.
