Bulking advice (long)

The fat loss phase is over (but some stomach flab still remains), and it’s time to start bulking. I’ve done equal amounts of cardio and weight training (in the low weights-high reps part of the continuum) coupled with a high-protein low-fat low-carb almost-no-alcohol diet.

Now, I want to get big. Not freakishly big, just bigger than I am. I know we have a whole bunch of weightlifters here, so I’m going to throw my questions out there.

About me: I’m 167 centimetres tall (5’6") and weigh in at 59 kg (130 lbs) after my six-month fat loss program. My resting heart rate is 45. I’ve done a lot of long distance running in the past, but the past six months have been my first experience with weight training.

1. Schedule I’d like to do a six-day cycle. That way I can synch my workout schedule with my work schedule, which would be a big help as I work nights. My current plan is to do weight training on days 1, 3 and 5, cardio on days 2 and 4 (alternating between running and stationary bike), and rest on day 6. Comments?

2. Cardio Until now, I’ve been doing 45 minutes of cardio at heart rate 140+ every other day. I’ve gathered that that’s too much for the bulking phase, so my schedule only includes two cardio workouts per cycle. Should I shorten the sessions, or is the “muscle wasting” occurring from cardio a myth?

When I do stationary bike training, should I be going for high resistance, high rpm or a happy medium, provided my heart rate is the same? Does it matter at all?

3. Muscle groups Should I spread the muscle groups out over the cycle so each muscle group rests for five days, or should I have one training regime that I follow on each weight training day? If the former, do you have any good suggestions for a schedule? How many different exercises should I do for each muscle group?

4. Legs Since my cardio workouts are leg intensive, what does that mean for my leg workouts? Should I do them after a rest day, cut down on them since my cardio will help build my leg muscles, or just not worry about it and do leg exercises like any other muscle group?

5. Sets and reps So far, I’ve been doing three sets of fifteen reps with the weights set so I can just finish 3 sets of 15. For bulking, the reps are going down and the weights are going up, I know that much, but how low should the reps go? I’ve heard everything from 2 sets of 4 to 4 sets of 8.

I’ve also heard the suggestion to do something like 12 reps - increase weights - 10 reps - increase weights - 8 reps - increase weights - 6 reps that I can just barely finish.

Finally, I’ve heard about working out to the point of failure. You pick a certain number of sets and reps, and when you can actually finish that number, you immediately increase weights so you’re always lifting until you can’t lift any more.

Which of these should I be doing, and why?

6. Time How long should each workout session last, ideally? About an hour?

7. Diet This is what I know: Eat a lot, eat often, plenty of protein, low fat, low carb. How many calories should I be eating per day to maximize muscle growth and how much of that should be protein?

Should I be using protein supplements, and if so, when should I take them during the day? Some say immediately in the morning and right before going to bed, others say only after workouts, others say only before workouts.

Those are my questions. Anybody kind enough to read through this long post and provide some insight is owed some cake when I reach my goals.

Matching up with your work cycle is a good thing.

Opinions on this one range from cardio not being all that bad for your growth to cardio being really bad for it. Go for some long walks to keep the fat off.

Take a look at the program I posted here. Do that and eat well, you’ll get big.

Intense leg work is the foundation of any growth program. Be prepared to make sacrifices for it.

4 sets of 8-10 for the first couple months. After that, consider dropping to 6-8 reps and upping the weight.

Don’t.

About an hour, but don’t get too hung up on hitting that mark exactly.

You’ll probably find that you need to aim for at least 3,600 calories/day to grow. If that’s not putting the weight on, eat more. Reevaluate every two weeks. I’d say about 25-30% of your calories from protein is probably about right, and you may find protein supplements help with that.

Thanks for all the advice, but…

THREE. THOUSAND. SIX. HUNDRED?

Maybe this bulking thing is a bad idea. I’m not sure I could wolf down that much a day, every day. During my fat loss phase I rarely cracked 1500 in a day. I wouldn’t know where to start with 3500+.

If your goal is to gain muscle mass, lift heavy weights. Period. If you’re doing 15-rep sets, you’re not lifting heavy enough, not if your goal is to bulk up.

I never lift more than 8 reps a set when I’m going heavy. And I always lift to failure on my heaviest sets (but always try to do a weight I can get at least 4 reps at).

Always work big muscles first (back, chest), small muscles last (biceps, triceps). Work out a schedule so that your muscle groups can recover–don’t do the same routine every work-out.

Stretch before you start. Work up to your heaviest weights to avoid injuries.

First, a caveat: I am not big, and I don’t lift to get big. I’m lean, and I lift to maintain muscle mass, maintain strength, and avoid injury.

OK then. I think you’ve gotten some good advice, so all I’m here to offer is:

To start, check out a book or two from the library or bookstore, this will give you not only a program, but introduce you to the philosophy behind weight training and muscle gain. After you’ve been lifting for size for a few months, you will be able to re-evaluate the advice you’ve read here, in books, and in other sites online. At that point is when you’ll start tailoring your program to what works for your body, motivations, and schedule.

Back in the day (ha ha), I was always partial to a schedule that was something like: chest, shoulders, triceps one day, and legs, back, biceps the other day, then alternating. Not sure how that would play with a 5-on/1-off cycle - whether 4 lifting days in a 6-day week is excessive for you (2 days lifting, 1 cardio, 2 days lifting, 1 day off). Also, unless you do some other cardio on one of your lifting days (say as a 1/2 hour warm-up) you’ll lose your cardio gains - but maybe that’s OK if you are trying to bulk up exclusively.

I’m certainly no expert (while others here are much more serious about their lifting), so good luck with whatever program you decide on.

Welcome to the world of bulking. If you want to get big, you have to eat big. The primary reason why “hardgainers” and the “metabolically challenged” don’t get bigger is that they tend to eat like birds. Seriously, eating more is every bit of a challenge as actually hitting the gym, imo, particularly if you focus on good, healthy food.

If you have a problem getting that much food down without eating junk (I know I do–that’s a shitload of oatmeal and chicken breasts :slight_smile: ), try making up for it with protein shakes. If that’s still not enough calories, make your protein shakes with milk and peanut butter.

My current routine is a generic “power-building” routine (half bulking routine, half powerlifting). 4 days per week, upper/lower/break/upper/lower/weekend. Half of each day is hitting compounds really heavy, 5x5 (for power), the other half is higher rep 3x10 stuff (hypertrophy work). It’s working out ridiculously well for me–I’d recommend it. If you’re really curious, I could go into details, but honestly, ultrafilter’s routine is just as good.

As for cardio…yeah, what everybody else said. Don’t do any crazy Bataan death march 1 hour+ stuff and you should be fine, as long as you take in the calories to support it. 20-30 minutes, 3 times a week won’t kill you or noticeably affect your bulk, as long as you’re eating well.

One additional caveat: unless you’re juicing or a genetic mutant, you will put on fat as you put on more muscle. Don’t freak out when you stop seeing your abs. You can always diet back to a leaner state.

It’ll have to be protein shakes for me then. I’ve done some calculating and there’s just no way I can get down 3500 calories a day while eating healthily.

This is what I’m really worrying about. It took me a lot of work to get where I am, and maybe I should just go for maintenance for a while. Gaining weight might be hard for me, even if I intellectually know that it’s all good.

What’s “juicing”?

Steroids. Don’t.

Ah.

I’m not stupid, you know.

Then set a small goal, like putting on 5 or 6 pounds. At the end of that, reassess. If you’re uncomfortable with the extra fat, diet it off while lifting hard with lower volume to retain the muscle gains. If you’re okay with how you look, continue bulking.

Maybe I should know this, but what’s “volume” in this context?

Amount of work.

In this context, say you’re doing 5 sets of 5. That’s 25 total reps.

If you reduced your volume from 5 sets of 5 for dieting purposes, you might only do 2 or 3 sets of 5.

Sorry to interject, but I kind of interpreted Priceguy’s goals as “bulk but lean” - more of a Brad Pitt look than an NFL lineman (or even The Rock). Is this incorrect?

Wouldn’t the high-calorie/high-protien/5x5-sets, as has been pointed out by Slortar and ultrafilter), add bulk and fat - is this the most efficient way to achieve the OP’s goals (maybe articulated a bit more completely for help). Thanks.

No, it’s pretty much spot on. My dream body is Brad Pitt in Fight Club. But right now I’m at a point in my life where I want to try different things. I feel like trying to gain some muscle mass and see what that looks like. I’ve gained some muscle in the past six months, gained the ability to move my pecs (that was a cool moment) and so on, I like the look of it, and I’m curious what I’d look like with more. If I, against all odds, gain too much muscle, it’s not like it’s difficult to get rid of.

No routine will magically make you look like a linebacker. You don’t wake up some morning all “huge” by accident. :slight_smile:

Basically, you can get bigger or you can get smaller. You can specialize in a body part or two at a time and that’s about all the control you have. There’s no specific “I want to look like Brad Pitt” or “I want to look like the Rock” routine (having said that there are difference between routines, but none of them will just automatically make you huge unless you really work for it). You can always just decide to maintain at a specific size/level if you’re happy where you’re at. I chose the routine I did because it’s the biggest bang for the buck for me with regards to time spent in the gym vs growth and power development.

I mean, after a year or so of the routine I mentioned using, I have more of a “Brad Pitt” build than a huge football player build. Gaining the football player build would require, for me, another 60 lbs or so of lean muscle…and the only way to do that is several years of concentrated work or drug use (or bionic implants :smiley: ).

We’re on the same page here. I was just noting that adding muscle bulk may be different than increasing musclular strength which may be different than gaining body mass - I guess what I wondered was whether a 3600 calorie/day diet for someone 5’6"/130-lbs. may bias them more towards the “added body mass” rather than the “added muscle mass” side of the equation.

With the amount of weights that you and ultrafilter have prescribed (and rightfully so), one would have to be on a weight-loss diet to not add muscle. I was just adding the question of whether in order to make the weight gain high-quality (what I was trying to get across with the “Brad Pitt body” comment), one needed to consume this many calories. I defer to you guys, since as I said I’ve never lifted weights or otherwise adjusted my diet/excersize to maximize body size or muscle mass. Thanks.

Oh, parenthetically, I have some experience with cutting weight while still trying to maintain muscle mass, excersize quality, and sport-specific fitness. And experience trying to add muscular mass and strength in injury-rehab, but only to regain pre-injury conditions. These are definitely not related to the goals of the OP, I just mention them so you get my perspective.

I have pretty much the same question, actually. What would happen if I did a bulking program but only consumed, say, 2000 calories a day, while making sure that a goodly portion of that was protein? Would my time in the gym be simply wasted?

Building muscle requires energy and raw materials. If you aren’t getting them through your diet, where will you be getting them?

If 3600 is too much, and you’re getting fat, you can cut back. Or if it’s not enough, you can eat more.

From breaking down fat? I still have some to spare.