It’s been another long day. My son is safe, the school is in full crisis management mode, and so it goes.
New information. Some entries on the list are groups of people. “All the N----rs.” “The Trannies”.
As my son wryly noted “The List is very diverse and inclusive in its hatefulness.”
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To be fair, naggers are annoying.
It is amazing how the school and the media managed to take something that would have traditionally been a minor bit of gossip for a couple of days and blew it up into a crisis. (Did Momo make the list?)
So they should be punished for thinking something “private” was not?
Is it legal to think both that bullying is bad and that you are totally overreacting?
I actually agree with you. I was overreacting, but I have witnessed some horrific things in my life so I am aware of worst case scenarios. Just because something is improbable does not make it impossible. Think positive but be aware. It’s all I can do.
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If one person picks on another student, that’s a bully.
If two people discuss their bullying of other students, that’s conspiracy.
It is not what they thought that they are being held to account for, it is what they discussed. Sure, if no one had known about their conspiracy, if they were correct that their coordinates of abuse would go unnoticed and stay private, then they would not be punished for conspiring against their fellow students, even though they would be guilty of having done so.
When a third party stumbles on your conspiracy and blows the whistle on it, it’s not their fault.
Try not to pull any muscles trying to stretch a shared list of “people we don’t like” into a conspiracy to plan bullying.
Sorry, but I’m having trouble seeing the “conspiracy” here. I see two kids making a list of kids that they don’t like at their school. What’s the conspiracy?
If I made a list of posters here that I didn’t like and talked about my list with another person, are we part of a “conspiracy”?
Are you listing people because of visible minority status, religion, or affiliation (real or imagined) with the LGBTQ community? Because if so, it is treading close to hate speech. I know this wasn’t published, or shared by the list creators, and it maybe wasn’t ever meant as an agenda or conspiracy. But seriously creating a list of 100+ people and describing them in homophobic and bigoted and racist language is not a harmless act.
Also, it is the week before Spring break, and my son says that several of his teachers have spent the classes discussing the issue. Although it usually isn’t a big week school-wise, these last two weeks have been hijacked by this topic.
Also, for context, school plays/ musicals (with budgets of over $20,000) has been cancelled by infractions by student actors, (smoking marijuana in the drama studio). Other acts by students have caused cancellations so my earlier comments about cancelling grad activities may have been extreme but not outside the realms of possibility.
No problem, not much of a stretch needed. That bullying is not considered a crime is the only fig leaf to protect them, but if they had made a list of houses that were easy to rob, or stores that were easy to shoplift from, would that have concerned you as little?
If either or both of them also engaged in bullying of those kids they didn’t like, while coordinating that bullying, then that sounds pretty much like a conspiracy to me.
If there could be any reason to think that any harmful action could come from either of you from that discussion about which posters you have a mutual dislike for, yes.
Sure, but did either or both of them engage in bullying of those kids they didn’t like?
We do not have the answer to that. I would say most likely, but I have nothing but the basic speculation that someone that would go to the trouble of making a list of people they don’t like would express in actions that as well.
If, instead, they had had a list of addresses of houses that were easy to break into, would you say that they would have to actually break into any of the houses?
I see. So you don’t know if they have done anything other than make a list, is that it?
Not sure. Is making a list of houses that are easy to break into a crime?
I work in cybersecurity. What if I made a list of vulnerable web servers and shared it with my cybersecurity colleagues?
that’s what I said, yes. Do you know that they never initiated a negative interaction with anyone on their list?
Depends on intent, to some extent, but it certainly can be.
If you shared it with your cybersecurity colleagues in order to develop better defenses, that’s fine. If you share it with your neighbor, would that be any different?
Absolutely. Positivly. Anything else would be supporting thoughtcrime.
Not sure if I could prove a negative, even if I felt so inclined to waste time doing so.
If they physically harmed any of the people on their list, then yeah, I’m all for punishment. Just making a list? And for that list-making they deserve dire consequences? Nah, I’m just not seeing it.
So, you are saying that no action can be taken until they have actually broken in?
They can have a list of houses, a timetable for when the owners are home, a list of valuables in the houses, methods of entry and security codes, and your only concern would be that someone may “support thoughtcrime” by discouraging such a list?
I don’t know if you know what thoughtcrime actually means.
Just so I get a measure here, is this thoughtcrime?
I said nothing about dire consequences for making the list.
Fair enough. Do you, k9bfriender, think the kids that made the list should be punished in some way? If so, what should they be punished for?
If they never engaged in any bullying, then they should have the punishment of a stern lecture about how foolish their actions were.
If they did engage in bullying, then whatever punishment there is for their actions should be increased fairly substantially.
