And the hits just keep on coming!
"The Bush administration distorted intelligence and presented conjecture as evidence to justify a U.S. invasion of Iraq, according to a retired intelligence official who served during the months before the war. "
Remember those little cars you would get as a kid? They had an electric motor on a little spinning thingee. You would turn the car on, set it down, and it would bounce around off of walls, as the little spinning thingee did its deed. But sometimes, it would just get stuck, pushing hopelessly against a wall.
That’s what you guys are like.
You see, the American public doesn’t care
Oh, I know you guys are desperate to see GW slapped down. But it’s going to break my heart to see you all teary-eyed, your hopes dashed when this non-issue slips into obscurity. Hey, you can always workup a good froth with Haliburton, no? Oh ya, that was tried. Well, something will come along.
One request: Could you guys possibly recycle one of the umpteen threads about this rubbish that is already in use? Do you need to start a new one every day? Or is that some attempt to create importance where there is none?
There’s a possibility that Bush and the administration lied about going to war. War. Where people were killed. Nah. That’s not important in the least.
Great. Reruns of ‘Welcome Back, Qatar’.
>ducks<
Oh, it was inevitable this tired old argument would get hauled out. “Yeah, it seems you’re right, I was played for a fool and I proved them right, but, uh, a majority doesn’t care about it yet, so shut up!” Gosh, what a convincing counterattack that is - if you’re a sheep.
You can be a sheep if you want. Go stand in the pasture with the rest of your slack-jawed friends. Some people are willing to state the truth. And even if it’s still a (fairly large) minority of people who are smart enough to remember the events of just four months ago, it can still hurt Bush at the polls. He’s going to lose votes to other issues, too.
I see that you’re still full of shit, Brutus.
**
Oh, this is rich. The bongo-mashing Leftists were just maybe going to vote for GW. Right on the fence, they were. But then this non-issue flares up, and GW is going to lose the hardcore Left vote.
Ya, right.
Oh, don’t be so hard on him. He’s fought a rear-guard actions for lo, these many weeks, only to have the ground cut from under him every time. The truth can be tough to face. Some can’t, they retreat to sneering cynicism and glower out at us.
We’re right, he’s wrong. He knows it. We can afford to be generous.
This just gets better and better.
Only “bongo-mashing Leftists” care whether the President lies, kills people and pisses away billlions.
Sane people, like yoursef, Brutus, no doubt focus on the real issues. And what the fuck would they be, exactly?
You know, I’ve been hanging with a lot of lefties - from doily-knittin’ lilly-livered “moderates” to dedicated cadres of the Fifth International Comintern (Trotskyist) and I can’t remember the last time I saw one with bongos.
You sure you’re not talking about conga drums? Size matters, you know.
All that cite tells me is that 2/3 of americans are extremely concerned about the lack of WOMD.
31% think he deliberately misled the american people
half of the 67% who think he did not mislead the american people think it was based on innacurate information. (a huge, gaping flaw in American intelligence and/or the administration’s analysis of said intelligence.) That’s 64.5% right there. I suspect a good number of the rest of the population is concerned, but giving Bush the benefit of the doubt and a bit more time to produce the evidence. Time is running out, however.
Count me in the deeply suspicious crowd at the moment, but if he doesn’t produce something soon (say, within a few weeks), it’s over for him. Lying would be impeachable, and a monumental intelligence failure would be enough to throw him out on his ass in 04. Blair, obviously, should go as well, much as I’ve respected him for many years.
But, like the 1/3 who have not yet concretely formed an opinion, whilst things are not looking good, I’m going to wait and see for a few more weeks.
Brutus, as you seem to have some strong opinions on this matter, I would invite you to answer a series of questions.
[ul]
[li]Do you remember that “massive stockpiles” of WMD that were a imminent threat to the United States was cited by our current administration as the primary reason for invading Iraq?[/li][li]Do you or do you not recognize that there is mounting evidence that indicates that this was not the case?[/li][li]Do you believe that the President is telling the truth?[/li][li]How is going to war based either on bad intelligence or on falsehood a non-issue?[/li][/ul]
Perhaps most troubling in all of this is the whole notion that the American people just don’t care, and so those of us who see this as a serious issue should just shut up about it. See, based on your cite about 98% of the people polled care enough to have an opinion (one way or the other) about this issue, and about a third of those folks think that they were deliberately lied to. Shit man, even those folks that thought Bush was telling the truth have doubts about the whole situation.
I know that you tend to be a Bush apologist, but the way that you are stating the poll results is just plain spin. A conservative poster distorting the facts to make his point; I just love the smell of irony in the morning.
You know, I’m starting to get the feeling that GWB’s decision making process is almost entirely a faith based initiative.
Some of us are just better at “believing what (we) know ain’t so”, I guess.
But unfortunately, the truth did not come out in time, the USA did not stay alert, did not think critically, and jumped to conclusions. It mounted an illegal invasion, and it denegrated nations that did not support it.
Brutus, I gotta tell you, I wholeheartedly supported the war. But I am very troubled by the fact we’re not finding anything. Very troubled, indeed.
I’m OK with the underlying strategic reasons for the war (shaping the political culture of the ME toward moderation, forcing the Israelis and Palestinians to the negotiating table, and showing terrorists we can be just as crazy as they are when we’re threatened). I’m absolutely thrilled that Iraqis have a chance to build their country into something worthwhile.
But as pleased as I will be if all these results come to fruition (big IF, obviously), I can’t excuse Bush and co. for lying about the reasons for war, if that turns out to be the case.
If the election were today, I’d still vote for Bush, but if I determine that even with the positive results of the war the administration lied about the reasons for going in, I couldn’t, in good conscience, vote for him.
You have captured my thoughts exactly. Bush has now put his presidency on the line. Hell, he has DEFINED it by this. Whilst no doubt the world and Iraq are better places due to this, and nobody in their right mind can argue otherwise, the ends do not justify the means.
Bush sold this to the American people based on WOMD. If they are not found, he is finished. Period. Had he argued that it was a moral cause to liberate Iraq from a brutal dictator, he may or may not have justified the war. But we can only judge him by his rational for starting the war.
We shalkl see how this plays out.
First december we can’t quote entire articles so I cut the best I can while always giving the link for that people can make up their own minds. Given your history with quotations and citations, it is ironic in the least that your giving me crap- do I need the trash the hamsters by providing links to all the times you have been Pitted over this? Take your “Dowd” and shove it.
Here is another link-- on top of at least 8 on in my first post alone. You have any bogus revelation from the 8 others, from from the 3 pages of cites I have provided before in the old OP? Didn’t think so. Why don’t you drum us up some more Rush Limbaugh cites instead. :rolleyes:
Here is another Cite, from a real legitimate source, imagine that:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26487-2003Jun6.html?nav=hptop_tb
and more even confirmation of the previous Cites:
As always, read the whole thing and make up your own damn mind, or in the case of december turn to Fox News Network to be told what your opinion is.
For the rest of you- could this be the “Read My Lips - no new taxes!” for GWB?
Nice relatively long article titled: Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense? by John Dean, who was a former councel to the President. He knows his stuff.
It is way to long to quote well- but he does do a nice summary of GWB’s statements for the denyers and semantic game players here-- take a look:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/findlaw.analysis.dean.wmd/
Here are a few samples:
His conclusion:
I love when people come to post to a thread- “that nobody cares”. Yeah, right Brutus keep fooling yourself.
Binarydrone: I was going to ask Brutus questions very similar to yours, but you beat me to it, and did it better than I would have. Danke.
Y’know, it occurs to me that his post seems to almost be a parody of conservative posts around here, something I doubt even they would agree with in terms of message, if not substance.
Here’s a few quotes about WPM’s…
Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
Dick Cheney August 26, 2002
Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.
George W. Bush September 12, 2002
If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.
Ari Fleischer December 2, 2002
We know for a fact that there are weapons there.
Ari Fleischer January 9, 2003
Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.
George W. Bush January 28, 2003
We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more.
Colin Powell February 5, 2003
We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons – the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.
George Bush February 8, 2003
So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? I think our judgment has to be clearly not.
Colin Powell March 8, 2003
Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
George Bush March 18, 2003
We are asked to accept Saddam decided to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd.
Tony Blair, Prime Minister 18 March, 2003
Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes.
Ari Fleisher March 21, 2003
There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. As this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them.
Gen. Tommy Franks March 22, 2003
I have no doubt we’re going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction.
Kenneth Adelman, Defense Policy Board , March 23, 2003
One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites.
Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark March 22, 2003
We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad.
Donald Rumsfeld March 30, 2003
Saddam’s removal is necessary to eradicate the threat from his weapons of mass destruction
Jack Straw,
Foreign Secretary 2 April, 2003
Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find – and there will be plenty.
Neocon scholar Robert Kagan April 9, 2003
I think you have always heard, and you continue to hear from officials, a measure of high confidence that, indeed, the weapons of mass destruction will be found.
Ari Fleischer April 10, 2003
We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them.
George Bush April 24, 2003
Before people crow about the absence of weapons of mass destruction, I suggest they wait a bit.
Tony Blair 28 April, 2003
There are people who in large measure have information that we need . . . so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country. Donald Rumsfeld April 25, 2003
We’ll find them. It’ll be a matter of time to do so.
George Bush May 3, 2003
I am confident that we will find evidence that makes it clear he had weapons of mass destruction.
Colin Powell May 4, 2003
I never believed that we’d just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country.
Donald Rumsfeld May 4, 2003
I’m not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein – because he had a weapons program.
George W. Bush May 6, 2003
U.S. officials never expected that “we were going to open garages and find” weapons of mass destruction.
Condoleeza Rice May 12, 2003
I just don’t know whether it was all destroyed years ago – I mean, there’s no question that there were chemical weapons years ago – whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they’re still hidden.
Maj. Gen. David Petraeus,
Commander 101st Airborne May 13, 2003
Before the war, there’s no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found.
Gen. Michael Hagee,
Commandant of the Marine Corps May 21, 2003
Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we’re interrogating, I’m confident that we’re going to find weapons of mass destruction.
Gen. Richard Myers,
Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff May 26, 2003
They may have had time to destroy them, and I don’t know the answer.
Donald Rumsfeld May 27, 2003
For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.
Paul Wolfowitz May 28, 2003