Okay. You don’t believe me. I’ll try to find an open date on my calendar and pencil you in to lose sleep over it.
And maybe someday you’ll get around to saying why there should have been “the same outrage”, now that you know how the situations differed. You do know, don’t you? You’ve actually read the posts above your latest, right? You do read, don’t you?
Did you read the last line on that little box?
Did you read any of the details in which they said their survey was meaningless? Such as this:
I didn’t think so.
There you go! Grab onto a tangent and whatever you do, don’t address the questions at hand!
Admit nothing!
Deny Everything!
Deflect the blame!
And then you can take some time out of your busy schedule to explain why there was an expectation of outrage toward Clinton and Carter when their actions differed from Dubya’s.
You can do it! Follow an argument from its poor conception all the way through its final complete and utter failure!
-Joe
‘Impeachment’ Talk, Pro and Con, Appears in Media at Last
Of course the rightwing media doesn’t want any scientific polls done:
9/11 changed everything:
I’m free every other Pluterday. And remember: it’s pointy end down.
Open your own thread asking, Clothahump. That’s what threads are for.
According to the Washington Times Clinton’s actions weren’t limited to only foreigners as you guys are claiming.
If this is accurate, it’s one more addition to the long list of extremely fucked up things that Clinton did. He would be in prison if I had my druthers.
Daniel
I can’t address the Carter program, but to see the outrage that you say did not exist for ECHELON, simply look up ECHELON in Google groups (usenet newsgroups - anyone else remember those?). I found over three hundred threads which claimed the sky was falling and the NSA was monitoring all your communications between 1995 and 1997.
I assure you there was plenty of outrage over ECHELON.
Of course we’re also comparing oranges to grapefruits. ECHELON only monitored foreign communication. Bush’s program monitored domestic communication.
Of course this current shitstorm in this thread does not address that a year ago, Bush said there was no such program, which we now know was a deliberately false statement, AKA a lie.
If true then it’s absolutely digusting and I’d support vilification and possible impeachment of the President.
ECHELON’s actions were. This is a different matter.
When the Chicago Public Housing Authority’s searches were ruled unconstitutional:
Damn that Clinton! Damn him! Will his tyranny never end?
Pretty slimy. I wouldn’t sign such a lease myself. What this has to do with an entirely different set of actions by an entirely different president is not clear.
Pardon me, I forgot the citation. It comes from that bastion of left-wing apologia, The Cato Institute .
Da-HUDE, check it out! Three liberals in a row show that they’re willing to stand by their principals and even condemn St. Clinton for violating civil liberties! Turns out we’re not the bunch of hypocrites taht certain conservative have fantasized we are!
Now let’s see if Debaser and Clothahump can show the same sort of willingness to excoriate their own patron.
Daniel
A little searching shows Debaser and the Washington Times to be a bit disingenous (no surprise there) or at least overstating the similarity. Chicago Public Housing authorities instituted sweeps of the projects. The ACLU sued to stop and won the lawsuit. Clinton then had HUD rewrite the leases so that tenents authorized such sweeps. While draconian and wrong, I think, they’re not the same. And they’re not wiretaps.
Or nationwide. This concerns one incident in one housing project, no more.
None whatsoever. I’m willing to stipulate its truth, because it’s not really relevant now. Were Clinton presently engaged in hijinks like this, I’d be happy to dig into the matter and either defend his actions or condemn them based on my findings (and I’d not hesitate to condemn them–remember, I think the man ought to be in prison).
But they’re not relevant: they describe a program that’s not going on now, a program that I cannot have the slightest impact on except by building a time machine. So I’m not going to devote the same amount of time to understanding their legality that I’ll devote to understanding the legality of Bush’s current programs.
Daniel
Once again, I hereby move that all discussions of Carter and Clinton be moved to another thread, excepting specifically the direct process that led to Clinton’s impeachment. I move that the Watergate issues are topical for this thread, as is Jackson’s impeachment.
I move that it should be assumed that any president, democratic or republican, who performed these actions, would be vilified in the same way Bush is now.
Any objections?
Bullshit, fuckhead.
Say I were to go to your friends and say “Why weren’t you all outraged when Clothahump fucked that 3 day old kitten?” Let’s presume for the moment that you didn’t fuck any kittens. When I was called on my lying, were I to claim “Hey, I was only asking a question!” I would be rightfully kicked in the nuts for being a fuckstick.
In this case, you are the fuckstick.
I wouldn’t trust the Moonie Paper to give me the weather report outside my own window.