Bush/Cheney Simulpeachment: to Pre-Empt a War With Iran (or whoever)

Great Debates
1

Two loose cannons running the country. We’re stuck with them for another 23.6 months. Could they get us into another war, even over the objections of Congress? Sure they could.

It’s time for a pre-emptive strike. And not against Iran or whoever else our crazy leaders might get the urge to start a war with, but against the crazy leaders themselves.

I’m completely aware that this has zero chance in Congress. But this thread isn’t about what Congress will do; it’s about what a better Congress, confronted with Bush and Cheney as they are now, should do.

I say we should impeach them and remove them from office, simply because it’s too dangerous to leave them in power. Who knows how much trouble they could cause in the world in 23+ months?

Right now they’re seemingly trying their damnedest to start a war with Iran. We know that over the past several years, they’ve repeatedly spurned Iran’s overtures towards negotiations. Lately there are fairly credible reports that the U.S. is doing the same with Syria, which apparently wants a comprehensive peace deal with Israel and the U.S.

One gets the overriding impression that these two crazies, having gotten totally mired in one fight of their choosing, are looking to solve the problem by picking more fights, and that part of that strategy is to slap down any inconvenient peace feelers before they get anywhere.

I don’t know for a certainty that this Administration will try to take us to war against Iran, but the problem is, nobody knows whether or not they will do so on the basis of reasons as thin as those that got us into Iraq.

They are crazy. They are totally divorced from reality. (Cheney’s recent interview where he talked about our successes in Iraq shows how out of it he is.) They could do anything, and that’s the problem.

We’ve got two crazies in charge of the most powerful military ever known to humankind. We should exorcise them from our body politic for that reason alone.

Simulpeachment. Now.

2

I don’t think impeachment is used enough as a remedy for “voter’s remorse,” so “Hear, hear!”

3

I’d rather use recall than impeachment. But unfortunately we don’t have that at the federal level, and are forced to call an imminent danger a “high crime or misdemeanor” (the Constitutional Convention struck the words “against the state”).

But it has to go in stages to be credible. First, let this Congress refuse to authorize or fund their compensatory manhood stuff. If they force the issue, there will adequate “high crimes or misdemeanors” for any blowjob-hater.

4

Such a move would make war more likely, not less. The Bushiviks would become more desperate for a “rally round the flag” cause.

5

I will confess I’m not thinking about the credibility of this particular impeachment; out there in the real world, I think the chances of any House impeachment hearings in this Congress are pretty slim.

6

Right now, I’d agree. But for the future, it depends on how far Bush and Cheney want to push their assertions, and how tragic the results are.

7

We would be lucky if the result is merely “tragic”.

8

What’s good for the goose, and all that? :smiley:

9

All would be solved if B&C said to the military ‘go do more war’ and the military said ‘no’. Don’t know what the chances are but one can only hope.

10

Even if an impeachment and conviction could be forced through Congress, it would be counterproductive. Look at the amount of bitterness Democrats still hold towards the Clinton impeachment process, and just imagine the amount of hatred the Republicans would hold if the Democrats impeached a Republican president. It would be seen as a purely political move, just as Clinton’s impeachment was, and it would cement the partisan politics that make for so much gridlock in our government.

It’s important that the impeachment process remains what the founders intended it to be- a method of removing criminals from the White House, not a political move to help secure more power for the party who controls Congress. We’ve already reached the point where any impeachment process is likely to be written off as politically motivated, and any impeachment process is essentially impossible unless the opposing party controls Congress. If you want to push through an amendment to the Constitution giving a method for a recall vote, I’d wholeheartedly support that, because there is no pretense of a trial there. But the impeachment process needs to remain a criminal trial, the way it was written.

11

Aren’t the chances, by definition, 0? The civilian leadership of the military makes such things hard to find. If someone tells them no, they’re fired and someone who WILL listen (and in the military, I suspect it’s not very hard to find) will do the bidding.

12

Having the military decline an order to go into battle is just as bad as the military declining an order to NOT go into battle.

Civilian command of the military is one of the most important principles in U.S. government.

13

I’m thinking something more along the lines of revoking the authorization to go into Iraq and replacing it with authorization contingent on the war/withdrawal being run by a new person that must be approved by congress.

Whichever way we go, there is a constitutional crisis looming.

14

I guess you didn’t read the OP.

15

Except Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about an extramarital affair. The Bush junta lied to the American people and the world in order to get us into a war that has cost many thousand lives.

It has been argued that Bush’s actions were a violation of the UN Charter, which under U.S. law has the force of Law. So Bush, Cheney and others violated the law. That makes them criminals. It has also been showed that they deliberately lied in order to enter a war of aggression. As was shown with Clinton, lying is an impeachable offense.

IMO there is zero chance that Bush and his cronies will be impeached. Ain’t gonna happen. But it should.

16

Oh, I certainly do agree, but the military culture/tradition also means that there’s someone that’s going to follow orders, no matter what. Civilian oversight of the military is an important check and balance, but when it gets abused…

17

Used to be zero. Now, its up to not much, but growing.

If enough people want them impeached, it will happen. We carry the Congress’ balls in our collective pocket, all we need do is reach in and squeeeeze. They would be out the door and gone, and President Pelosi could hire the Queer Eye dudes to decorate the Ovarian Office, and the SDMB Legalistic Pundit Squad could bicker over the legality of it as much as they please.

Used to be impossible, now, just very, very unlikely.

18

As much as I dislike Bush, impeaching him because of something he might do (invade Iran) would be a “we have to destroy the Constitution in order to save it” type of proposal. The Constituton says “high crimes and misdemeanors,” and I don’t see any high crimes here. (Bracing myself for the “he lied!!!” responses.)

In the end, Congress impeaching a president solely because of opposition to his policies strikes me more like a coup than a proper exercise of Constitutional authority. A majority of Americans – curse them – elected this joker, and we have to live with that mistake. That’ll teach us. (shakes fist)

If people don’t like what the Constitution actually says about impeachment, we should be debating a constitutional amendment to change it; but for God’s sake, let’s not have Congress working to undermine the Constitution to the an even greater extent than the White House has.

19

Bush invaded Iraq based upon something they ‘might’ do. The difference is that, unlike Iraq, BushCo has the means to actually do something.

Bush and Cheney should be impeached for high crimes they’ve already committed, such as waging a war of aggression.

And yes, he lied. He lied much more than other Presidents who have been impeached have lied.

20

Except that one of our Bushistas will be along to emphasize that lying under oath is what was shown to be an impeachable offense in the Clinton precedent.

Apparently the Presidential Oath of Office doesn’t count.

:mad: