Bush Fired Colin Powell

The BBQ Pit
21

That is a fascinating article in the Post! It speaks to some of the things you have mentioned Sevastopol and madmonk28, but goes into the specifics.

The author does have a book about Colin Powell coming out later this month.

I don’t think there is much doubt about why Colin Powell was chosen to deliver the speech to the UN. He was highly trusted by most Americans. The speech itself (which he oversaw, but did not write) was essentially a public relations presentation although Powell was not aware of that.

Maybe your take on the article is different. But that’s mine.

Yes, Powell had talked about leaving. But he had planned to stay on. Bush asked for his resignation.

22

I also am a republican, and I agree. To me, their politics is what matters…what difference does it make if they are white, black, or whatever?

23

I quite agree with the sentiment. What I put forward is that the GOP while having persons of noble sentiment, may also be the natural home of those who would hesitate to vote for a black man. Moreso than would be found in the opposite party? Now, this is conjecture and if you say ‘nay’, then I’ll take your word for it.

24

Weeeell, the Republicans to run quite a few blacks.

I often agree with elucidator. However in that case I can’t work up any feelings about Powell being fired as opposed to resigning. I just don’t give a damn because while he is in, he was just a water-carrier for his boss.

It might be argued that all underlings are water-carriers for their boss. However the Secretary of State ows it to his constituency, the US public, to use his best efforts to conduct a sensible foreign policy. Powell, despite his long experience with the limitations of intelligence, ignored the caveats and swallowed whole hog his bosses cherry-picked story. Screw him.

25

The conjecture is not without some basis, given the GOP’s success with the Southern Strategy.

26

Indeed, they do. They appear to have exactly the same competence as the people you derided. The difference appears to be that the Right is better willing to close ranks and deny incomptetence–or even unpopular opinions–than the Left.

Thomas is a second rate jurist picked explicitly for the reasons that you claim Elders and Reno were chosen.
Rice seems moderately competent, but is willing to say or do anything to further the neo-con agenda.
Gonzales was picked for his ability to torture U.S. and international law into unrecognizable shapes for the purpose of rationalizing barbaric behavior and his willingness to lie to promote G W Bush (both before and after that gentleman’s rise to the presidency.

Without having any particular liking for Elders or Reno, I see no reason to believe that your three examples are in any way different based on their competence or reasons to have been picked.

27

A very large bloc of Republican voters are racists. Not all Republicans are racists, however the bloc is large enough that the Pubbie leadership must consider their interests in every decision even if they never publicly acknowledge it. Think ‘Solid South.’ It is so large that even though many Republicans are not racists, for political purposes they might as well be because their party will always truckle to racist interests unless absolutely forced to do otherwise by events.

Many of these racist Republicans well understand the concept of “a good nigger.” An Uncle Tom in short. But they would probably balk at having such a one as President. Some undefinable number would vote for a white Democrat purely on the basis of skin color. So it won’t happen.

28

The Powell Doctrine is BRILLIANT now? Holy crap.

“You know, if you fight a war, it’s a good idea to really make sure the war is necessary and make sure you beat the hell out of your enemy. Oh, and make sure it’s not another Vietnam, 'cause that was pretty bad.” This is easy to do when your major accomplishments in White House defense policy are the invasions of helpless little countries like Grenada and Panama.

There’s the Powell Doctrine - common sense that has been followed by scores of smart statemen, and ignored by scores of stupid ones, throughout history. It’s about as impressive an intellectual acheivement as a physicist in 2006 coming up with the idea that there’s something to this whole “Gravity” thing. Is it just that people think he’s a genius because he looks so much smarter than George W. Bush? That isn’t saying much.

Powell has become regarded as some sort of brilliant statesman, and yet there’s really no evidence at all that he’s any sort of an uncommon genius. Certainly rising to the level of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is an impressive accomplishment, but I would also point out that Westmoreland, McClellan, Percival and Haig all reached high ranks. Powell’s fast tracking, as has already been pointed out, was partially due to his happy willingness to help try to cover up the My Lai massacre. Powell’s half-assed opposition to Clinton’s attempts to allow gays into the military - to wit, his “Hey, I don’t like homos either” speech to senior officers - was utterly disgraceful. He then signed on to be Secretary of State, largely to add some gravitas to the Bush administration, and helped Bush start an imperialist little war, which distracted attention and resources from a war that was actually important to fighting terrorism, and lent respectability to an administration that has done everything it could to ruin the USA’s reputation abroad.

I’ll give him credit; he’s a very skilled politician. He sure seems to have fooled a lot of people. Powell is now being heaped with praise and credit - several threads have been started on the SDMB with titles like “Powell Blasts Bush! Yay!” - for criticizing Bush’s administration. A day late and a dollar short. Lots of people figured this out YEARS ago, but I don’t see anyone talking about the brilliance of the Franken Doctrine or the Olbermann Hypothesis. Where was Powell’s criticism - or at least a principled resignation - when Bush/Gonzalez began setting up their plans to torture people? Where were Powell’s principles when he presented his bullshit to the UN to justify killing a whole mess of Iraqi women and kids? No, Colin Powell just went right along with it.

If Powell is the genius and the principled man he claims to be, where is his fucking apology? Criticizing the boss who fired you is easy. Let’s see him have the balls to stand up and say “I am responsible, in part, for the invasion of Iraq and the deaths of thousands of people in a war that never had to be fought. I take responsbility for my part in this fiasco and I apologize for it.” But he doesn’t say that, does he?

Powell is all sizzle, no steak.

29

I wonder if it’s title will be Fog of War 2: Electric Boogaloo?

30

You think Thomas was a first? Uh, LBJ wants a word with you regarding some guy named Thurgood Marshall.

But that sound you heard is me splitting my sides, laughing hysterically at the thought that the three folks you mentioned are supposed to be examples who aren’t “unqualified and/or inept.” Thomas has been an utter waste of space on the court, except as Scalia’s batboy. Gonzales and his torture fetish will, I hope, have his day of reckoning in The Hague. And I’d rather not even discuss Condoleeza “My goodness, how could we possibly have imagined people would use planes for weapons?” Rice – or maybe that’s Condoleeza “There was no warning, oh except for a report called Bin Laden Determined to Attack in U.S.” Rice – or maybe it should really be Condoleeza “Katrina’s so depressing, I think I’ll buy some shoes!” Rice.

Returning to the OP, I don’t see any big surprise in Bush firing Colin Powell. He also got rid of Richard Clarke and Paul O’Neill, both of whom have more experience, ethical judgment and wisdom than the rest of the administration put together. In any event, I detest Colin Powell just as much as I do the other fuckers in this administration. In fact, on some level he might be even more contemptible. Which is more despicable: to be amoral (like, say, Cheney), or to have a ‘conscience’ while still assisting the amoral folks? He knew how much lying was going on during the lead-up to the Iraq invasion and not only said nothing, he helped them and leant them “credibility” with his dog-and-pony show act in the U.N.S.C.

If and when he starts telling the whole truth about what he knows, I might have an ounce of respect for him. As it is now, Powell was, and is, nothng but an enabler. No, he’s worse than that – he’s an accomplice.

31

The Powells are whores of the ruling class. His son gave the media mogols the ability to take over all the newspapers ,radio and tv in a market. he was a horror show at the Fcc.
Colin lied in front of the United Nations. He flat out embarrasingly lied. Lots of people were raising objections to the story he was presenting. He swollowed his objections and went ahead. He made Iraq possible then they turned on him. he deserved it. No body can trust a liar.

32

Thank you for driving a splintered, jagged stake through the heart of all my secret fantasies involving lesbians.

33

Count me in as another one of the “Powell ain’t all that” crowd.

Hate to say it, but I think a lot of people like him just because he’s a non-threatening black man who differs from other black politicians by A) being a card-carrying patriot as attested to by his military service and B) being a Republican. He’s doesn’t deserve the hype.

34

I’m glad you mentioned this. I turned Powell off during this shabby episode. What he did is called “insubordination” and is a serious military offense. I have no idea why Clinton didn’t call him in and say, “General, I have announced a policy and you will either support it or hand in your resignation.” I suspect Clinton wasn’t all that sure of how the military works and was worried about political fallout.

I do know, though, that had Powell as a Commanding Officer announced a policy and then discovered that his Adjutant was bad mouthing it at the O Club there would have been hell to pay.

35

Oh, Tom, why bother? Do you imagine that it is even possible to have a substantive discussion with someone who is actually representing Clarence Thomas as an admirable figure? All it means is that Starving Artist is either so blindly partisan that he’s unable to engage in the most minimally rigorous examination of anyone on his side of the political aisle, or else that he’s simply completely unaware of the actual issues he’s spouting off on.

Given that, in the past, Starving Artist has shown both qualities in spades, it’s probably irrelevant which of them is motivating these particular posts. But if someone is trying to represent Clarence Thomas as a competent jurist (or, specifically, “not unqualified/inept” - how sad that Thomas hasn’t actually met even this low standard), isn’t that a pretty clear sign that nothing productive will be said?

36

If Powell had any integrity to begin with, he should have resigned in protest at the start of the Iraq invasion. Or he simply could have told Andy Card (and Bush) to pound sand when they asked for his resignation. Do you really think they could withstand the PR hit of firing Colin Powell? I don’t.

37

Wouldn’t work. The Bushiviks would simply have put Condi in as 2nd in command to Powell in State (whazzit? DeputySec State?) and rout all the important business to her, leaving Powell only to show up for photo ops. On a man like Powell, humiliation works better and faster than anything else. Badda-boom, badda-bing, bye bye.

38

But he’s so well spoken!

39

Excuse me? Did you miss a newsletter or something? The Official White Codeword for “black person who speaks Standard English” is “articulate”. Also, because he doesn’t have any illegitimate children and has never been in jail, he’s officially “a credit to his race”. Please try to keep your OWCs straight.

40

:dubious:

Are you trying to make Miller cry “Uncle”?