When I came into this thread I started fuming almost immediately as I read a few responders to the OP do the ‘our Blacks are better than your Blacks’ shuffle in defense of the Bush administration’s installation of water carriers into prominent positions, simply, in my estimation, to curry the minority vote. It incenses me whenever anyone offers up that empty suit Clarence Thomas as a paragon. I wonder if any in the hallowed chambers or the vaunted halls in DC know, or even care, that Clarence Thomas is considered nothing more than a ‘House nigger’ by many Black people and is worse than scum, irredeemable and an embarrassment.
As I began furiously writing my heated responses in Notepad I continued reading and was stopped dead in mid-type by what I would have sworn was proof positive that **elucidator ** could reach into my mind, yank out the fierily incoherent thoughts my fingers were struggling to keep up with, make sense of them so handily and present them so entertainingly, as copied below.
Thank goodness, I thought. Someone actually gets it. Then **tomndebb ** chimed in and brought me halfway to Nirvana with the response below.
Then **Evil Captor ** did what, in the current political climate, must be difficult. He spoke the unvarnished truth, as follows below.
I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge **choie’s ** response as well, copied below, which re-emphasizes Thomas’ unforgivable emptysuitiness and that weasel Gonzalez’ willing extrication from humanity for a cause that’s not his. I marvel at his naivete in seeming to believe he won’t be one of the first against the wall when it all starts going irreparably bad for Bush.
I thank the four of you, not that you asked for it, but it is encouraging to me that many on The Dope actually have a clear understanding of the duplicitous motivations of those in the Bush administration who will laud Black people as long as they continue to know their place and will come a-runnin’ from the field when the massa rings the bell.
As far as Colin Powell is concerned, I am extremely disappointed in him. He had an opportunity to do what I believe he knew was right, in anticipation of his woefully unfortunate declarations before Congress. and he blew it. He threw it all away. For what? I still hope he’ll do or say something, anything, to redeem himself, but I’m quickly losing faith that he will. What a shame.
It rather disturbed me that Powell was being touted as presidential material in 1992 when nobody, so far as I could tell, knew much of anything about his politics.
In case you hadn’t noticed a certain irrationality has crept into presidential candidacy. I think it started with Eisenhower. He was almost elected president before anyone knew whether he was a Repulican, Democrat or, for that matter, old styleFarmer-Labor.
I feel bad for Powell, one of the few true tragic figures in the Bush administration. I’m sure early on in his tenure he must have realized that his dissenting voice was not being heeded. I can’t blame him for staying, if I was him I would have figured that these clowns needed some adult supervision and felt a duty to be the internal naysayer if they wanted to hear nay or not. So he was ignored and ultimately fired for not being the internal yes man that they wanted, in spite of toeing the administration line in public. He didn’t go public with his mistreatment, but you sure don’t see him denying the story now. He seems a bright and earnest fellow, but his loyalty to the Bush cabal is quite misplaced.
I don’t see any evidence that his was a “dissenting voice.” Powell had long experience in dealing will intelligence and its limitations. The limitations are one main reason why military commanders always keep a reserve for the unexpected. He either knew, or should have known, that there were many caveats about the intelligence analysts conclusions. When you are deciding between going to war or not, when the war is a peemptive attack thousands of miles from the US, I don’t think that going to war should get the benefit of the doubt.
It was a blunder so great that it’s possible that the US will never fully recover from it and it borders on criminal negligence.
Hey, EC, I just wanna know…can you TASTE the shit, when you talk out of your ass like that??
I’m really sick of people claiming the South is inherently “racist,” and that the Repubs are, as well, particularly people who aren’t even members of either of those groups (yes, I’m looking at you, EC)…
Yes, there are racists in the south, but I can assure you, there are just as many in the north and east - maybe more! Having lived in the south all of my life, we are pretty color-blind down here, as a general rule. In my extensive travels to other parts of the US, though, I cannot say the same about the east coast, or northern cities like Chicago and Detroit, where minorities are viewed (and viewed by EACH OTHER) with suspicion every time they enter a store…it’s amazing.
Yeah, I know there are news reports of spectacular cases of racial hatred in the south - it garners attention because it IS news…it happens infrequently enough that it garners attention. If it were common-place, it wouldn’t even merit but a short mention…
I’ll stop now, but DAMN, don’t talk unless you have LIVED it, you fucker…
I don’t see being replaced as evidence that he was obstreperous. And didn’t Powell himself say the was stepping down by his own wishes.
And his interview can be viewed as him letting himself off easy.
His protests, if any, were ineffectual. After a certain amount of this he could have resigned and stated his reasons. After all, we are not talking about some routine, internal governmental difference of opinion. This was about a war which can potentially cost many lives and billions upon billions of dollars for reasons that he claims to know were suspect.
We (the U.S.) have a long tradition of electing war generals/heroes for no other good reason. Washington, Jackson, Harrison, Grant, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, and no doubt some who slip my mind.
They’re not all bad, mind you - some are quite good - but they’re mostly politically unknown at the time of election.
True, Clarence Thomas is often considered the least of the Supreme Court Justices.
True, Alberto Gonzales does not provide impartial interpretations of the law but finds legal justifications for the President to do the things he wants.
But my impression is that Condoleeza rice is competant, evil maybe but very, very competant.
You don’t think there is a big difference between Al Franken criticizing a Republican administration and Colin Powell questioning his own administration?
I recently read Plan of Attack on the recommendation of a one of the Bush apologists on this board and unless Bob Woodward is lying, Colin Powell didn’t want to go to war and he was battling against an adminstration that wanted a war in Iraq since they got into office and then 9/11 gave them the political capital in which to bring that about.
No doubt, Colin Powell should bear criticism for not standing a little firmer and voicing his concerns a little louder but within the administration he had been doing just that and he got marginalized for it.
I don’t get how he was being brilliant either but these days, sanity passes for brilliance in our government.
Say what you want, Washington was the bestest President a country could ever wish for. This is the guy who affirmatively decided not to become King of America when every one of his officers was almost begging him to do it (and make them Dukes and Counts and Barons in the process). This is the guy who convinced the entire US army not to stage a coup because they hadn’t been paid in a few years. This is the guy who after 2 terms, decided not to seek reelection (which he would have easily won) because he didn’t want to set a bad precedent. Its almost unimaginable for a President to try and grab that kind of power today (the currrent administration being the exception) but back then, we were a backwater third world nation and leaders of third world countries are notorious for taking power, raping their country of its natural resources for their private gain and then running off to a more civilized part of the world (and its not just the constitution, just about every two bit dictatorship in the world has an American style constitution).
I’m not saying Powell didn’t oppose this from within; what I am questioning is whether he deserves credit for his relatively mild public statements to date. If in fact the stories are true and it’s basically a Cheney administration that was pushing to annex Iraq from the get go, Powell’s protestations raise an obvious question; why the hell did he sign on in the first place?
Now, there’s a lot of possible answers to that question; perhaps he felt he could do something from within. Perhaps the prize of the Sec-State job was too juicy to pass up - after all, he’s a careerist. Perhaps it was out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to the Bush regime. Whatever. The fact is, he helped the Iraq War happen. He’s just as responsible for it as Condoleeza Rice, or Paul Wolfowitz, or Dick Cheney, or Donald Rumsfeld.
Like it or not, if you’re on the wrong side, you’re on the wrong side.
If you were on an officer on the Titanic hollering at the Captain “slow down, you idiot, or we’ll hit an iceberg” and the Captain ignores you, are you at fault for the collision? What more can you ask of a guy but to give his honest opinion?
Unlike an officer of the Titanic, Powell had the freedom to do something that might have helped:
Resign.
And I don’t mean the chickenshit form of resignation – “to be with my family” “to pursue other opportunities” (c.f. Christine Todd Whitman, Andrew Card, Norm Mineta*). He should’ve resigned his ass in protest, publicly stating his disagreement with the fuckheaded policies of this administration. That’s how they do things in Great Britain.
But no, you don’t see that here in the U.S., certainly not in the Republican administration. Perish the thought! Here the politicians who may have some meager vestiges of conscience clamp down on those better instincts, bowing like toadies and slinking away to well-paid consultancies – in short, receiving gold for their silence.
The only two people involved in this administration who had anything like a noble departure are Richard Clarke and Paul O’Neill, and that’s because instead of just stepping quietly like good little soldiers, they spoke up.
Oh and before someone brings up Powell’s military background as an excuse for him keeping his mouth shut, I remind you of these four-star generals, who really knew what serving our country is all about.
Since Powell gave his infamous “bullshit” presentation on the UN, wouldn’t a more apt analogy be comparing him to an officer who receives an order to go full speed in iceberg-ridden waters – and does so knowing it’s a bad decision?
If your are already marginalized then further fighting from within is useless. Get out and and sound off from there. Powell obviously didn’t think that possibly stoppin a blunder was important enough I guess.
I’m imagining Powell appearing on O’Reilly’s show and saying that the intelligence wasn’t nearly as firm as it was being portrayed.