:dubious: Not at all what I said. If these folks weren’t rich, the politicians would ignore them. As it is, the will of the people is overwhelmingly in favor of this project; it’s only a few people in a specific region who don’t want it, but their immense aggregate wealth and political clout means the project is in danger. Were this project in West Virginia, you wouldn’t have heard of it.
Daniel
I haven’t been to Martha’s Vineyard in 30 years, but I’ve been there, it’s pretty, and there’s a value, IMHO, in preserving beauty.
If we’re going to nationalize this as an issue (no problem with that), I think we do need to consider, at the national rather than the state level, whether we have any limits in that direction of where we’re going to put these things. IOW, first come up with some standards, then decide where windmills off of MV fits in. I’d like to know that there’s some standard by which we’re going to build windfarms off MV, but not in the mountain passes in Glacier National Park.
The other thing we get to do if we nationalize this, is insist that all the nondescript locales for good windfarms are filled up before we get to places that are notable for their beauty. Are all the good sites in the Great Plains already taken? Just askin’. But it seems unreasonable to have it both ways with respect to geography - if this is a state issue, then it’s up to Massachusetts residents to decide whether MV is the best site remaining in their state for a windfarm, and they can do that without the help of the rest of us. But if it’s a national issue, then the question is, is MV the next logical site nationwide to put a windfarm on?
And then there’s Mitt Romney. Why is a serious candidate for the GOP Presidential nomination somehow getting a free pass on this, while Ted Kennedy’s name gets the spotlight? They seem to be taking the exact same position here.
I’ve never been one to go along with the crowd on this board just for the sake of going along. I’ve often taken the unpopular viewpoint. But I have to say, it sucks ass to stand alone on this board. And ultimately, I’m going to be seen as a selfish rich bastard no matter what points I make. I concede that I’ve already lost the debate, based on numbers alone.
Whether it’s a minor point or not is largely a matter of opinion, of course. Since it is my back yard*, my opinion is going to have a different weight than yours.
I cannot show you a depiction that will be meaningful in any way, since a computer screen is no substitute for the real thing. But consider this – Look at the Moon. Yes, that big lovely white thing in the night sky. The subject of song and sonnet and love and science. The thing that hits your eye like a big pizza pie. Now consider how huge and bloated it appears when it’s low in the sky. Now consider it twice as high and fifty times as wide. Maybe you don’t consider that significant. And you’re, of course, entitled to that opinion. Forgive me for not sharing it.
*As I’ve stated 3 years ago, it is only my back yard for a week or two per year. The rest of the time, Boston is my back yard. I’d love to have the wind farm in Boston. I think it’d be cool. I hope that speaks to my level of selfishness on the matter. Yes, PLEASE put it in my back yard!
It isn’t Romney’s back yard. Try proposing a wind farm in Belmont and see what happens, though.
So are you saying that the people of Massachusetts need less representation, or that the people of West Virginia need more?
Romney opposes the wind farm. What’s your point?
Whoooooooosh!
Um, Weirddave, why do you think I came in here in the first place? Because I judged the individual issue on its merits and found that I think that some people I usually side with politically are wrong in this case, and some people I usually oppose politically are right. So I said so.
The harping on the painful partisan inversion theme was meant to be, you know, funny.
So they are, which is why, far from giving Romney a “free pass” on the issue, I explicitly called him a “chowderhead” at the end of my OP, which I’m starting to get the feeling that neither you nor Weirddave actually read. 
There are windmills on Bolivar Peninsula in Texas. They are located along the road that runs behind the houses along the beach. I think they look rather grand. I don’t understand the opposition to them.
Hear, hear!
Okay, I didn’t know that.
From what I’ve read, the wind turbines will appear about 1/2" high when viewed from shore. This is from the nearest point of land. Now I’ve seen the moon, and I honestly think it appears larger than that when on the horizon, at least in height.
There are some computer generated visual simulations on the Cape Wind site.
Either would suffice: representation is a zero-sum game in a democracy. What the folks of West Virginia deserve is representation equal on a one-for-one basis to that of the folks in Cape Cod.
Daniel
Pollute? Pollute what, your eyesight?
This is a step in the right direction, but nooo, mustn’t ruin your view. Instead you’ll rely on others to pollute their back yards so that you can have a pristine view and still meet your energy needs.
You sure are a good and noble person, let me tell you. Enjoy your view when the oceans rise from global warming and you’re underwater.
OK, these changed my mind. I am a long-time Kennedy loather, but I gotta say, those windmills look aweful on the horizon, especially from Craigville. Not what I’ld like to see when staring mindlessly out over the ocean while on vacation. But, I’ve never been to Cape Cod or Matha’s Vineyard so what do I know? Carry on.
Very true.
The problem with polluting someone’s back yard is, y’know, cancer. Diseases. Asthma. Medical conditions that are caused by, or exacerbated by, pollution.
The problem isn’t that it creates something aesthetically questionable far off on the skyline.
Daniel
For those who are interested, here are two previous discussion on this issue:
As i said in both of those threads, i disagree with Kennedy and with the other people who are opposing this project. It seems to me to be the worst sort of NIMBYism, something that Walter Cronkite even conceded when the New York Times Magazine interviewed him on the issue a few years ago:
Now i love Walter Cronkite, but that sort of self-serving bullshit just pisses me off.
The biggest problem in discussions of this issue is how many people—most notably the OP of those previous two threads—seem to see only Ted Kennedy, and ignore everyone else involved in this issue. For so many people, Kennedy’s hypocrisy is all they can talk about. At least the OP of this thread didn’t fall into that trap, and noted that others, including local Republicans, also oppose the wind farm.
In fact, as i pointed out in the thread from February, a bill introduced to Congress that might have blocked this project was sponsored by that well-known liberal environmentalist, Alaska Republican Congressman Don Young.
See, that’s it, that’s just fucking it when it comes to a lot of these supposed “environmentalists” thinking about where to place wind-farms on the east coast. Don’t the great plains have their own unique, rural character just like Nantucket sound?
Oh right, poor folks live out there so why does it really even matter?
Can someone provide a link to mock-ups of these supposed monstrosities?
Just for comparison’s sake: Walter Cronkite had been as fierce an opponent of it as anyone, until he confronted his own nimbyism and recanted.
Meh, I like windmills, I think they look cool. Build them everywhere, I say!
Hey, I’m just being a rational 
actor.