But Bernie, Bernie Still

Politics & Elections
21

Despite Sander’s possible mistakes or missteps. Despite how he navigated the course of his political career in the path of uncertainty. Despite how some of his base ended up being toxic. I honestly believe that he’s the most compassionate and well-meaning politician I’ve ever known of in all my years in this country, (all 43 years). I think he truly cares about the people who don’t have as large of a voice.

To be honest, I think it’s possible that many of the people on this message board might be a little out-of-touch on how difficult life is getting to be for people who might not have as much as they do. I’m not saying that for sure, I don’t read every thread about every topic on here, I just think that it’s possible this message bored might attract a certain type of person that, could possibly be, more often than not, more ‘secure’ financially. I could definitely be wrong.

Yes the economy is generally doing well. Or it was about a month ago, I haven’t heard much about it lately. These corporations are often taking advantage of us (it’s labor force and it’s costumers) while posting record profits, and the money in politics make that difficult to combat. Until ‘The Squad’, Bernie’s had a lot of resistance. I think he, like Trump, saw the building anger and disconnect from everyday workers and their politicians and the absurdly rich and powerful, and he tried to capitalize on it. I honestly believe his intentions were to try and fix the problems, as he saw them. I think Trump weaponized the anger and made people to believe that the cause of it was pretty much because of anyone but him.

I think he’s got a humanistic, and moral way about him, and that attracts me to some degree. I definitely prefer his reaction to Israel and Palestine conflict more than Biden. I don’t know how forward thinking Bernie is, though, as he wouldn’t have been able to deliver half the things he campaigned on, but perhaps that was the point. Isn’t there a saying? Shooting for the stars could land you on the moon?

I’m not sure how things would’ve ended up if Bernie had won either time he ran. You simply can’t predict the future, and there may be no ‘right’ answer, but just different shades of problematic options. I believe we should strive to be as compassionate as possible in the things we to, along with being as strategic as possible, of course. We may not always live up to our ideals.

Some say 'The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

Sure, sometimes I guess? I mean, one could finally build the courage to ask out their crush on a date, and rewarded for their efforts with a ‘yes’, and then on the way to the date they get hit by a car and killed, does that mean we should stop looking for love? Are we suppose to have bad intentions then?

Just how I feel right now.

22

But he waited until too long after he had mathematically lost to endorse her. His supporters were constantly hammering Clinton with attacks. They focused on Hillary not trump.

And 538 said that such attacks were one of three things that caused her to lose to trump- which gave us this mess.

And Sanders never called them off- they kept hammering at Clinton even after he Endorsed her. They generated some solid hate for her.

And still to this day, right here on this board, Sanders supporters keep spreading that silly conspiracy theory that the DNC controls who gets nominated.

He was a poor loser.

And some of his ideas- “Medicare for All” which had nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare.

23

I can’t find or link to the polls in question, but I do recall some polls on the Dope that showed that the average Doper is fairly old and rich, compared to the average American. In fact, the average Doper is probably a retired or near-retiring white wealthy North American man.

24

There are lots of poor dopers living hand to mouth and finding gas money in the couch cushions. But …

What those folks mostly aren’t are low wage young workers stuggling to build a life with shit wages in a dog-eat-dog economy. What they mostly are are functionally disabled or over 65 or both. So wards of the state inadequate though that support may be versus their actual medical, psychological, and basic financial needs.

25

I’m sure there are a lot of variables, like with everything.

26

That’s a bit unfair.

The slogan was comparing something familiar and beloved by older Americans who recognize the value and then offering the same concept: medical care as a basic human right to everyone. Not just to folks w the right birthdays.

UHC sounds socialist and scary. Having the same Medicare that protects your aged Mom extended to yourself and your own young family sounds a lot more familiar and palatable even if the details of how that UHC-that-dares-not-speak-its-name would be operated administratively differently.

27

The nature of Cecil’s column attracted trivia buffs in the early days, and that went all over the sociopolitical map. One group that self-excluded was the “we don’t discuss rude topics like that!” church-lady social conservatives.

As time passed, the scientific aspect of the topics brought in people whose meat and potatoes that was: people with careers in those fields; careers that pay well. That did cause a shift in tone.

28

But it wouldnt even be close. In fact, I would like Medicare to be lowered say to 60, then 55, etc. But real Medicare.

29

Bernie is a spoiler, he has always been. It gives him an opportunity to get his ideas heard.

The actual effect is to siphon off votes from the most liberal candidate.

Hint, it won’t be Trump voters that will get his vote.

30

Huh? Bernie has never run in the general election for president.

31

Ahistorical nonsense.

There have been 32 presidential elections where the same party won the previous two. In 17 of 32, the incumbent party won a third election; in 15 of 32, the opposition won the White House.

32

Not to derail too much since this is a Bernie thread, but eras change, and what happened in the 1800s isn’t that relevant to today’s politics. In the modern (say, Vietnam-to-present) era, the only time a party’s had three straight terms was when Bush Sr. succeeded Reagan. And even then, it was a very tough uphill slog; Bush trailed Dukakis by 17% in the polls at one point.

33

Bernie was independent in congress, and a gadfly for the socialist end of the left. Not a surprise there isn’t a lot of legislation in his name. He provided some balance to the political spectrum. Apparently Vermont like him too. That’s the principal job of a representative, to represent the politics of their state or district.

34

This is a perfect example of recency bias.

Arbitrarily cutting things off to only look at five elections reduces the sample size to something so small that it’s pointless to try to extract a trend. Additionally, while it’s true that 4 of the 5 most recent elections have gone the way of your ‘trend’ that ignores the fact that in 2 of the 4, the electoral college winner lost the popular vote. It’s ridiculous to say that this voting trend exists when cherry-picking the time period and where half of the trend-supporting data points depend on the quirks of the Electoral College.

35

I’m curious how other congresscritters stack-up?

If Sanders is to be judged on legislation that exists only because of Sanders then I think we need to be able to ask what others in congress have done to make legislation that only exists because of them.

I can’t think of any. I suppose there have been a few big ones like the Glass-Steagall Act. Doubtless there are some others. Not a lot I can think of though.

36

As a lifelong bleeding heart liberal I can not STAND Bernie Sanders. His supporters are even worse.

Bernie cares about BERNIE. He ran in 2016 to try and drag the party more left-ward. Fine. He had no illusions about being nominated at first. But when his campaign, against all odds, started getting traction, he swallowed his own hype and thought “hey, maybe I actually have a shot at this!”

Then he played spoiler and handed the election to Trump. I’ll never forgive him for that.

37

This is a good point. If you’re trying to establish what voters prefer you have to look at the popular vote, not who won the Electoral College.

38

That didn’t happen (not close).

We’ve done this here before.

39

That guy Roth seems to have had some impact on how we save for retirement.

40

Ha! That was the one I was actually trying to think of but my brain kept going to Glass-Steagall (I didn’t try too hard to figure it out…either makes the point).