I went to buy a used hub cap one day, and the chick at the counter had an eyebrow ring. Freaked me out, so I left.
Moderator’s note:
Nope, Evil. This isn’t a warning, btw, just a reminder. IMHO may be “Debate Lite” (urk) but the standard’s still the idea, not the poster.
People may, can and probably will say things you disagree with. Such is life, and the forum.
“Shutting up” isn’t an answer.
TVeblen,
IMHO mod
Every time I’ve asked somebody in management to explain the reason for a dress code, they’ve responded with a circular argument, thus:
**Me: Why is this particular combination of garments considered professional dress?
Them: Because this is what professional people wear.
Me: Why do they wear it?
Them: Because it’s considered professional dress.
Me: Why is this particular combination of garments considered professional dress?
Them: Because this is what professional people wear…**
People have different tastes in clothing. I find neckties offensive. But I don’t interfere with other people’s rights to wear them, and I wouldn’t presume to tell other adults how they should dress. (Seriously, I’m amazed anybody still wears neckties, after all these years. Stupid, useless garments. Why have they remained, when spats, dickies and celluloid collars have been sloughed off like dead skin?)
And that’s your problem and your problem alone. Other people have absolutely no obligation to share your taste in fashion.
Unless I just got whooshed, in which case, I apologize, but the point still stands.
I think that’s what pisses me off the most. It’s all catering to the ignorance of the consumer, who think employees should be dressed this way, because they say so.
This I understand completely. I don’t think wearing a distinctive hat, apron, lanyard or nametag are inappropriate. I’ve had teh same problem. When I go to the Wherehouse, I know the employees are the one with a lanyard that says “Wherehouse” around their neck and four pounds of crap hanging from it. Aprons are pretty common, even at workplaces that have no risk of dirtying one’s clothes.
And I think that is a perfect example of my point. When the reason is “It just is,” then it’s time to rethink “it.” Who does this “it” benefit? Is “it” unnecessarily annoying or uncomfortable to anyone involved, or even to the peopel most directly involved (the employees who ar ethere for eight hours vs the consumer who must suffer through the sight of a nose ring for four minutes).
I keep trying to post a reply to this thread about how I don’t care what the employees at businesses I frequent wear as long as they’re clean, neat, and not revealing more flesh than I really want to see away from the beach, but the hamsters keep eating it.
I also want to say that my favorite bookstore, Borders, has very, um, relaxed dress codes, and that many of their employees have multi-colored hair and facial piercings. I want to inform my fellow Dopers that I have learned to seek out these employees when I need help finding a book because I have learned from experience that they are generally more knowledgeable and helpful than their more conservatively dressed cow orkers.
I want to say these things, but somebody has forgotten to feed the hamsters, so they keep eating my posts.
Hopefully they filled up on the last two longish posts and don’t have room in their stomachs or little cheek pouches for this one.
Then you probably wouldn’t like to see the first drafts of my posts at all …
I might add that I dislike dress codes generally because they strike me as fascism on a personal level, which I have personally experienced. Other people may disagree with me, but I won’t respect their opinions – just their right to have one.
People may, can and probably will say things you disagree with. Such is life, and the forum. “Shutting up” isn’t an answer.
In my defense, my first thought was, “OK, here’s a nickel, now you hate dress codes and protest them at every opportunity.” But it just wasn’t very pithy. Plus, the phrase used was a play on the poster’s claim that he doesn’t even complain about dress codes.
Nonetheless, I get your point. I won’t be using that phrase any more.
My idea is this—if a particular job entails a dress code and I am aware of that code before I accept the job, then I have to choose between my dislike of dress codes and my need/desire for a job. If I accept a job, knowing that a dress code is in place, then I have no right to complain about that dress code.
And, Evil Captor, I might add that that my opinions (and my ideals) are my own and they are not for sale now and never have been. I deeply resent your statement that they are “obviously bought and paid for.” Equally, I resent being told to “shut up.” I assure you I would not tolerate such a statement in a real life situation.
Touche, LouisB.
Fercryinoutloud, Evil, it’s a dress code we’re talking about so get your britches out of that knot.
I respect your opinion that you believe dress codes are for the ignorant and uninformed. If you can be a success in your chosen profession by being a non-conformist, be my guest.
In my industry (conservative, insurance) you would not likely be hired for a public-facing position with purple hair and piercings. Is that ignorance? Maybe. Is it reality? Yes.
Society doesn’t = me. Society makes all of the rules that we behave by. Why don’t men wear dresses? Because we as a society have determined that it’s not appropriate.
Can it change? Absolutely. There was a time in our not-so-distant past that women would have never been caught wearing any kind of slacks. As you can see, we’ve come a long way, baby.
Instead of expressing your opinion with so much anger and venom, try using your passion constructively to change the rules.
I used to be an asst. manager at Hot Topic a few years ago. Best job I ever had! They let me be me, and in return they got a kick-ass employee. I’d go back to work there in a heartbeat.
And, Evil Captor, I might add that that my opinions (and my ideals) are my own and they are not for sale now and never have been.
What exactly did you mean, then, when you said, “I believe that them that has the gold makes the rules.”? It seems to me that your were stating that you think a slavish devotion to the rules set down by your higher-ups is a good thing, even if such rules tend to subjugate you or decrease your human dignity. You may think I have insulted you, I only think I have clearly delineated what your philosophy implies.
I deeply resent your statement that they are “obviously bought and paid for.” Equally, I resent being told to “shut up.” I assure you I would not tolerate such a statement in a real life situation.
See my response above. It’s duly noted that it’s a very good that we aren’t conversing in person so you won’t beat me up or anything.
If I accept a job, knowing that a dress code is in place, then I have no right to complain about that dress code.
Yeah, like nobody ever accepted a job they knew they would despise because they desperately needed money and had no other choice.
Society doesn’t = me. Society makes all of the rules that we behave by. Why don’t men wear dresses? Because we as a society have determined that it’s not appropriate.
Maybe I’m just cynical, but whenever I hear someone saying “Society this” or “Society that” I just assume that they are trying to increase the force of their personal tastes and opinions by saying that “society” shares them. 'Cause most of the time, that’s exactly what they’re doing, and that’s what I think ou are doing.
You own a biz, you make people dress to your personal tastes, but it’s all for the customers in your conservative industry and for the nebulous construct known as “society.” I’m sorry, I don’t believe it for a minute.
And you’re right, it is hard not conforming the tastes of “society” but I feel it is worth doing nontheless.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? Or is it a naturally occuring condition?
**Are you being deliberately obtuse? Or is it a naturally occuring condition?
**
No and no.
Well sure it would, but I would object to any logo or “message” T-shirt, as well as the cut-off sweats and flipflops. I don’t think you should be able to come into work looking like you just rolled out of bed, but I think forbidding jeans is silly. As noted, pilots tend to wear uniforms anyway, but I personally wouldn’t object if that uniform was defined as an airline issued shirt, cap, pilot’s insignia, and his/her trousers of choice, jeans or otherwise.
I think this point is well taken. However…at the local Whole Foods Market, where the workers are allowed to wear jeans, they also wear distinctive store issued vests. Problem solved; I never have any problem telling who works there.
I work in a casual atmosphere, jeans, whatever. However, last summer I got in trouble for wearing a low cut shirt. It really was not that bad, and there are other women here who wear the same type of thing. In fact, there is one woman who dresses like a hooker 4 days out of 5.
It made me so mad that my boss said something to be about my shirt. I truly thing it’s because I’m young and thin and look good, and she’s a matronly old bag. She never said anything to the heavyset girl who works in my department who is all cleavage everyday. Unfair, I tell you.
Better watch it, Indygrrl. I don’t know much about your workplace but it it does occasionally happen that if even one person is perceived as taking too many liberties with a casual dress code, management steps in and imposes a conservative dress code. I mentioned in another thread that, at one job, they banned jeans after I’d been there several years, and one of the reasons given was that a few people were wearing ripped ones.
Consider your warning a word to the wise…or you might all be back in dresses and slacks before you know where you are!
I have no idea why, but the three jobs I’ve held in my life that paid the most were also the ones that had NO dress code.
Two were as interns (one for a magazine company, one for a public transit office), and one is as a free-lance translator, for which I can (and do) go naked.
Care to elaborate on this statement? How is this possible? Do other people go naked? Or do you work from home?