Ramblings on male and female dress codes at work

In My Humble Opinion
1

At my workplace, which has a fairly formal and conservative culture, the gentlemen’s unwritten but very-much-collectively-understood dress code is as follows:

  • All must wear shoes, trousers (pants), an ironed shirt and a neck-tie.
  • A jumper (pullover) over the shirt and tie is technically an option, but is a maverick, irreverent and subversive move.
  • Likewise, flamboyantly-patterned shirts and ties are technically admissible, but would not be seen worn by anybody with aspirations to management.
  • A matching 2-piece suit is de rigueur, although senior managers may get away with a jacket that does not match the trousers (pants)
  • A waistcoat (vest) may be worn instead of or as well as a suit jacket, although this is usually only for more senior gentlemen
  • Additional approved flourishes are tie clips, lapel pins and double-cuffs with cuff-links
  • A handkerchief in the breast pocket is considered unacceptably gauche for all but the most senior management
  • Suit colours generally should match the season - a very light suit in December would be considered odd, while a light blue suit in the summer would be considered tasteful.
  • Shoes should be black - possibly brown if the season and accompanying fabric colours allow it

The dress code for ladies is…

  • anything that at least covers the chest down to the knees - with nothing showing between. And something on the feet.

In reality, some women - especially those higher in the hierarchy - pretty much wear the female equivalent of what the men wear (suits, shirts, ‘smart’ blouses, black shoes, etc…). Plenty don’t, though - sleeve-less tops, dresses with floral prints, jeans and sneakers all protagonise. If I came into work wearing jeans and a Hawaiian shirt people would *be gravely concerned about me *, and if I walked in with my bare shoulders showing I would (I expect) be politely escorted off the premises.

I have spent the last few years pondering this. My workplace is perhaps an extreme example - but I’ve seen this elsewhere: in workplace situations where men are expected to don shirts and ties, women seem to get away with a more acceptable range of variety and less apparent formality (at least, in the lower ranks).

A knee-jerk reaction to this situation may be a kind of indignant Men’s Rights Activist-style “It’s sexism! Misandry! Double standards! One rule for them and another for us!”. Poor old men, goes the idea, being held to unfair higher standards than the slothful and slovenly lady-folk. Perhaps. But in virtually every other walk of life women - rightly or wrongly - spend more time caring (and being judged) about their appearance than men do. Why would the workplace be a sudden reversal of that?

Ladies, of course, aren’t expected to wear *identical *clothes to men in the workplace. Partly this is biological; button-down shirts don’t work for all female body shapes. It’s also cultural - a woman wearing a man’s getup (as described above) would be seen to be making a fairly bold statement. But the female equivalent of the man’s shoes+shirt+tie+suit certainly exists (usually with peculiar diminutive amendments to sleeve length, collar width, etc.) - it just seems that a) there is less of an expectation that ladies should don it, even when there is one for the guys, and b) they frequently opt not to, instead going for something more comfortable and casual. And who can blame them, you might say…

(Then, there are the exceptions - cases where subordinate women in client-facing roles have been ordered to wear high-heels and skirts when they would rather not - is this a similar kind of sexism that obliges men to wear ties but not women? Or something more sinister? Dunno…)

The thing is - rightly or wrongly - the way we present ourselves at work matters. Most or all of us make assumptions and generate impressions of people based on how they are dressed; put simply, in a formal environment a person (male or female) in a suit carries more professional weight, respectability and gravitas than one in jeans and a sleeve-less top. Consequently, my female colleagues collectively put themselves at a disadvantage by not suiting-up. Are they not aware of this? Or do they know it but don’t care? Or, am I even reading this right? Is there something I’m missing?

Okay, ramble over - your thoughts welcome :slight_smile:

2

It’s the same where I work. Women can (and do) wear pretty much anything, and no one says a peep. Men are expected to dress conservatively, and someone *will *say something to them if they don’t.

Why the discrepancy? This is the only reason I can think of: if management put in place strict rules on how women should dress, the women will become very vocal about it and claim they’re being victimized, discriminated, etc. By contrast, men won’t complain.

3

Got to thinking more about this, in how men and women are treated in the workplace.

I have men and women working for me. If one of my male employees is slacking, doing substandard work, coming in late all the time, etc. I’ll say something to him. If one of my female employees is slacking, doing substandard work, coming in late all the time, etc. I won’t say anything. Reason being… I am fearful the female employee will go to HR and claim I am harassing her. Even though I’m not harassing her, my life will be over, and HR will take her side and I’ll either be demoted or fired. (I have witnessed this firsthand at my workplace.) It’s just not worth it. Yea, it’s not fair, but I’m powerless to change the system.

4

This difference in what is acceptable as being business casual is something that I have thought about as well and I wonder if it comes from the idea that women are still seen as being ornamental in the work place. For example, the expectation was (and maybe still is) that, at least in an office setting, the big boss would have a “pretty” secretary which reinforced his big boss status. Men, on the other hand, are expected to show that they are dependable and efficient, which is shown by the neatness and correctness of their appearance. Although this type of thinking has no doubt changed through the years, it probably is still reflected today, at least in places that do not have a uniform policy for dress standards.

//i\

5

I think it’s both simpler and more innocuous than that. Men have been in the workplace, and in particular in management positions, forever, and so there are centuries of tradition built up on how men should dress. Women, however, have only been in the workplace for a fairly short time, and even then mostly low in the hierarchy, so there hasn’t been time for women’s workplace fashions to ossify in the same way. So when women did enter the workforce, and a female dress code was created, it was created to be sensible, which wasn’t an option for the tradition-bound men who already had a dress code.

6

There may be subtleties to the women’s dress code you are missing because you don’t know much about women’s clothing.

7

At work my jeans never have major holes or tears, and I avoid tshirts with overly profane messages. My employees have a dress code, but it’s one they’ve adopted amongst themselves.

8

Women have been in the ‘workforce’ at least as far back as the oldest profession, which lead itself to a fairly common dress style for women engaged in such a profession. They were also looked down upon in society. So a divide in work clothes and a divide in status and position is long standing.

9

At my work we have a “business casual” code. Which means decent pants and dress shirt for men. Women wear yoga pants and large t-shirts, flip flops, all sorts of nonsense. It’s perfectly fine.

10

No doubt. I don’t really know what it ‘means’ if one female colleague is wearing sandals while another is in Doc Martens - but they’re both a similar degree of formality away from my black work shoes.

11

Where I work, pretty much anything goes. Mostly it’s jeans, boots of some sort and fleece tops and sweaters. We live in snow country. Shorts in summer are fine, but you’ll likely be cold. The town with our county seat in it got over 300 inches of snow so far. And march is typically our snowiest month. We can expect another 3 feet at least. With a few more feet in April. Trying to ‘dress up’ in these conditions would be insane.

We are county government. GIS department (computer mapping/spatial analysis) , but it’s the same for everyone.

12

In offices in parity with men? Hardly. And dragging a workplace discussion down to women prostitutes isn’t very helpful. particularly as you seem to equate prostitution with how women now dress at work. Please. It’s offensive.

To the OP, I think Chronos has it, in large part. Women haven’t got a long-standing accepted-by-all ‘officer uniform’. Dressing in what is basically mens suits but with a skirt or heals is also not something many women want or are expected to do.

There are different standards at play. It’s not that men = smart and women = slovenly. Let’s face it, women make far more effort than men in virtually any place or occasion. It’s that what is regarded as smart for women isn’t necessarily a power suit and a tie. And I suspect the OP is missing the clues.

13

The store I cashier at is owned by Orthodox Jews. The only thing I was ever told is my clothes must be clean and appropriate, and I have to wear the store’s red shirt at all times I’m in the store, and not wear it outside of the store. I got the clean part, and apparently appropriate means not too tight or too revealing.

The cashiers wear red so if someone not wearing a red shirt is behind a register, the staff notices. The aisle workers wear navy blue so they are not noticeable, especially to shop lifters.

14

When I see a female colleague in a (ladies’) suit, I think she looks smarter and more professional than one who is in jeans and a top with no sleeves. Am I the only one? When taken in aggregate, and only in my limited experience, it seems to me that women in formal white-collar environments dress less professionally than men do. And, this isn’t because they don’t have the *option *of dressing formally - such outfits exist - it seems that they consciously choose to dress-down. I cannot think of a ladies’ outfit which is more ‘smart’ and ‘professional’ than some kind of feminine suit jacket+skirt or +pants combo. (But then, I don’t know much about women’s clothes).

Perhaps I am missing something, though - as all this stuff is inherently subjective. Perhaps most people don’t see it the way I do - hence the OP. Crucially, I am seeing this through a man’s eyes - it may well be that women in such workplaces look at and appraise each other’s dress in terms of formality and smartness using a very different set of criteria. If so, what are they?

15

I think the expectation in society is that men wear somewhat unremarkable and forgettable clothes. It would be odd for a man to wear unique attire in an environment where that is not the norm. The way men dress is generally pretty consistent even outside work. Think about any big award show. Men are typically in similar suits, while women are in wildly extravagant and unique outfits. It’s not even noticed if a few men are wearing the same suit, but women dread showing up in the same dress as someone else.

I would tend to think this is because of the underlying differences between how men and women want to dress. I would guess that a lot of men are perfectly fine wearing essentially the same polo shirt, jeans, and shoes every day of their life. But I would tend to think that women prefer to wear things that are more unique, vibrant, and expressive of their current mood.

So I wouldn’t attribute this to being unique to the workplace. In almost all facets of society, men dress pretty consistently with each other. The workplace may put some additional boundaries on that since their profit may depend on the appearance of their employees. If target market expects men to look a certain way, the business may encourage their men to fit that expectation in the hopes it will create more revenue.

16

My job is very lax with dress code. They don’t want people looking like total slobs, but while they do have a written dress code (due to, so I’ve heard, one mishap), it’s mostly along the lines of, “wear clean clothes and shoes, don’t be shirtless, etc.” Personal preferences vary. The President of the small company generally wears slacks and a nice shirt, sometimes a vest. Dress shoes. I’m at the opposite end, wearing skinny jeans and sweaters (I loathe blouses). Heck, on Fridays I’ll wear sometimes wear a tank top that says FRIDAY, FRIDAY, FRIDAY on it (with a cardigan). But it doesn’t come down to differences in men and women - my female manager dresses a bit more formally while a male manager wears jeans like I do. Most of us don’t work directly with customers , and when some do, they’re out on IT assignments, and aren’t expected to be wearing suits anyway.

Plenty of employees here work remotely, so they may well be in their jammies :smiley:

More to the subject of the post, I do think it’s unfair if different standards are expected of male and female employees. I think it’s worth bringing up to HR if it’s something that bothers you. Personally, I’d HATE having to wear a tie every day if I were a guy, or ever at all, so I wouldn’t fault you in the slightest bit. Similarly, I know there are places that demand women wear dresses while guys wear pants, and I’d hate that as well.

17

ISTM that there are two somewhat separate issues. 1) is that women’s dress codes have more variation. 2) is that women’s dress codes tend to allow for more skin exposure than men’s.

I think both of these are reflections of conventional standards in society at large and manifest themselves to the same extent in non-business dress situations. So it may be a mistake to look for a business dress-specific reason for them.

18

I suspect you’ve hit on something there. Perhaps so many women object to the feminine-version-of-a-man’s-suit because it is essentially boring, and goes against everything that women are brought up to think about dress and appearance (i.e. that it is all about individuality and self-expression).

This isn’t to say that men don’t have avenues for creativity in how they dress at work, too. I have a wide variety of cuff-links and tie clips which I like to playfully mix up now and then :wink:

19

If you can get past being offended perhaps there is maybe some truth to this. Women over the recent years, and recent decades have been complaining about being seen as sex objects, being lower class, having to wear things like high heals with certain jobs a frequent saying is she got ahead by sleeping with the boss and using their body for advancement. Not to mention the whole ‘#MeToo movement’

Being offended helps one dismiss what they don’t want to consider or challenge. Is that reason enough not to offend?

20

So where did you get your time-portal to 1960? Seriously- that’s an absurdly restrictive dress code for the second decade of the 21st century. Most places, even those that require suits, don’t much care if you wear a vest, sweater, pocket square, or exactly what color your shoes are.

At most, what I’ve seen is something of a formality break between staff and management, where the staff may be all wearing jeans, polos and various sorts of non-sneaker casual shoes, and by unspoken agreement, the management types will be wearing chinos, polished shoes and a dress shirt, with any polo shirts having the company/department logo prominently displayed. And as everywhere, management aspirants will be dressing up like their supervisors in some sort of low-key brown nosing attempt, while simultaneously incurring the disdain of their staff peers.

I haven’t really noticed too much difference between what women wear and what men wear, with the exception of shoes and hot weather clothing. By that I mean that if it’s 25 degrees outside or 105 degrees outside, we’re all wearing pants, polo shirts, casual shoes (or the management outfit). But some women may wear more seasonal clothing- shorter skirts, open toed shoes, looser/more open blouses, etc… without any fear of official repercussion.

Of course, there’s a LOT more catty nonsense that goes on among the women about what they wear- while most of the men manage to not quite look homeless some days in terms of combing their hair and shaving, the women are all invariably made up, with hair that’s done, etc… and they wear “outfits”, as opposed to just trying to not wear weird color combinations like most men.

I don’t think it’s due to any sort of inherent female flamboyance or inherent male dullness, but rather that we’ve all been conditioned to think we should dress a certain way, and reinforce it among ourselves. I mean, if a guy were to show up with elaborately coiffed hair and a just-so outfit, we’d probably tease him about having a date or something like that, because that’s unusual for a regular work day. I’ve actually heard that this sort of thing is quite the burden for gay men, who might want to be as slouchy as us straight men, but feel like they have to live up to some sort of style/grooming standard.